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Prices and inflation
Thread poster: Peter Motte
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Er… Feb 23, 2022

Gerard Barry wrote:
So you'll continue to charge high prices that enable you to have a good standard of living but you don't want to see the lowest paid workers in the economy earn a little more to match inflation? That seems a bit selfish.


Did I say any of that?

I was just regurgitating textbook economics. Yes the spike in inflation will hit the poorest hard, but the solution is not to hike wages, which could make the problem last longer, but to subsidise their bills somehow.


Mr. Satan (X)
P.L.F. Persio
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:57
Member
English to French
Russian gas Feb 23, 2022

Gerard Barry wrote:
...expensive renewable energy...

even more so when wind mills and solar farms need to be complemented with gas turbines (or coal-fired power stations) for when there's no wind or sun.

Philippe


Gerard Barry
 
Paul Lambert
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Sweden
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Yes, you got it. Feb 23, 2022

Novian Cahyadi wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

We need to keep inflation under control.


Not an economist either, but I always thought that managing the inflation is the domain of your national central bank? If so, there's nothing we, as citizens, can do to keep it under control. I'd imagine global trades would make this to be a much more complicated matter as well (i.e. scarcity of commodities seems to affect the inflation rate considerably, if not the main factor that causes it).

@Economists
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know myself.

[Edited at 2022-02-22 04:26 GMT]


Inflation as such is the result of central banks increasing the money supply. You then have a greater number of pounds, dollars, franc etc chasing the same number of goods and services. That is what inflation is by definition.

The confusion comes in when people refer to any increase in the price of a commodity as "inflation", and the media and even many economists do not help to clear up the confusion. If your local grocery store burns down (God forbid) and then food has to be transported in from elsewhere which incurs costs, those costs will be reflected in the prices of the food sold at the stand outside the smoking ruins of the grocery store. That is not inflation, strictly speaking, though people will use this as an example of "price inflation". If a central bank stops printing money, inflation is licked. Period. Prices may still go up and down for other reasons.


Mr. Satan (X)
P.L.F. Persio
 
Jan Truper
Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:57
Member (2016)
English to German
green people Feb 23, 2022

Gerard Barry wrote:
It's like all the "green people" here in Germany: they're usually high earners and don't seem to care that poorer people might have difficulty heating their homes thanks to Germany's obsession with expensive renewable energy.


I'm one of the "green people" in Germany, and I care (so do most other "green people" I know, by the way, as they tend to be rather empathetic). Please tone down your baseless slander.


P.L.F. Persio
Matthias Brombach
Tom in London
Sarah Maidstone
 
Paul Lambert
Paul Lambert  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 14:57
Member (2006)
Swedish to English
+ ...
DISCLAIMER: NOT offering financial advice Feb 23, 2022

Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:

I can't just sit and watch things get more expensive everyday without fighting back by earning more on my side. Inflation has become so visible during the last 3-4 months, so yes I have started to raise my rates, which is more or less successful depending on the client. I still have to think how to handle the everyday living costs and leave the global matters to economists and governments. I guess it's easier to speculate about economic theories living in more stable countries in Europe, but I can't really see what else there is to do with inflation at 'personal' level.


Historically, the only thing individuals can do to hedge inflation is to put your savings in gold or silver. They tend not to lose their intrinsic value, i.e., in 1900 one ounce of gold would support a family for a week. In 2022, one ounce of gold will do the same.

In this context, cash is a perishable good that goes bad the longer you leave it. When you need to spend money, you can sell you gold, but then the cash starts "going bad" right away.


Mr. Satan (X)
 
Paul Lambert
Paul Lambert  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 14:57
Member (2006)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Caring or not Feb 23, 2022

Jan Truper wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:
It's like all the "green people" here in Germany: they're usually high earners and don't seem to care that poorer people might have difficulty heating their homes thanks to Germany's obsession with expensive renewable energy.


I'm one of the "green people" in Germany, and I care (so do most other "green people" I know, by the way, as they tend to be rather empathetic). Please tone down your baseless slander.
`

I wouldn't say that "green people" don't care and they may be empathetic, but they don't have the same personal stake in it and can afford to maintain their green identities. After all, we are constantly told to "make sacrifices". If that sacrifice is a little bit of money when you have plenty, you can afford to feel like a good person. If that sacrifice means choosing between turning off the heat or the lights, one's feelings might be different.

It is like with food. The price of food is not a major concern to the rich. It is a crucial concern to the poor.


Jorge Payan
Gerard Barry
Mr. Satan (X)
Andy Li
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
??? Feb 23, 2022

Paul Lambert wrote:
Inflation as such is the result of central banks increasing the money supply. You then have a greater number of pounds, dollars, franc etc chasing the same number of goods and services. That is what inflation is by definition.

The confusion comes in when people refer to any increase in the price of a commodity as "inflation", and the media and even many economists do not help to clear up the confusion. If your local grocery store burns down (God forbid) and then food has to be transported in from elsewhere which incurs costs, those costs will be reflected in the prices of the food sold at the stand outside the smoking ruins of the grocery store. That is not inflation, strictly speaking, though people will use this as an example of "price inflation". If a central bank stops printing money, inflation is licked. Period. Prices may still go up and down for other reasons.


Isn’t prices going up the very definition of price inflation?

You seem to be defining monetary inflation.

The current spike in consumer prices is very much a matter of supply and demand issues, actual and potential, no?


LIZ LI
Mr. Satan (X)
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Jan Truper
Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:57
Member (2016)
English to German
... Feb 23, 2022

Paul Lambert wrote:

Jan Truper wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:
It's like all the "green people" here in Germany: they're usually high earners and don't seem to care that poorer people might have difficulty heating their homes thanks to Germany's obsession with expensive renewable energy.


I'm one of the "green people" in Germany, and I care (so do most other "green people" I know, by the way, as they tend to be rather empathetic). Please tone down your baseless slander.
`

I wouldn't say that "green people" don't care and they may be empathetic, but they don't have the same personal stake in it and can afford to maintain their green identities. After all, we are constantly told to "make sacrifices". If that sacrifice is a little bit of money when you have plenty, you can afford to feel like a good person. If that sacrifice means choosing between turning off the heat or the lights, one's feelings might be different.

It is like with food. The price of food is not a major concern to the rich. It is a crucial concern to the poor.



Renewables are the world's cheapest energy source -- especially if you factor in consequential costs.


Christopher Schröder
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Not necessarily Feb 23, 2022

Charcoal and various bioflammable liquids made of crops are quite renewable, but far from clean or free of consequences

Jan Truper wrote:

Paul Lambert wrote:

Jan Truper wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:
It's like all the "green people" here in Germany: they're usually high earners and don't seem to care that poorer people might have difficulty heating their homes thanks to Germany's obsession with expensive renewable energy.


I'm one of the "green people" in Germany, and I care (so do most other "green people" I know, by the way, as they tend to be rather empathetic). Please tone down your baseless slander.
`

I wouldn't say that "green people" don't care and they may be empathetic, but they don't have the same personal stake in it and can afford to maintain their green identities. After all, we are constantly told to "make sacrifices". If that sacrifice is a little bit of money when you have plenty, you can afford to feel like a good person. If that sacrifice means choosing between turning off the heat or the lights, one's feelings might be different.

It is like with food. The price of food is not a major concern to the rich. It is a crucial concern to the poor.



Renewables are the world's cheapest energy source -- especially if you factor in consequential costs.


 
Paul Lambert
Paul Lambert  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 14:57
Member (2006)
Swedish to English
+ ...
No. Feb 23, 2022

Ice Scream wrote:

Paul Lambert wrote:
Inflation as such is the result of central banks increasing the money supply. You then have a greater number of pounds, dollars, franc etc chasing the same number of goods and services. That is what inflation is by definition.

The confusion comes in when people refer to any increase in the price of a commodity as "inflation", and the media and even many economists do not help to clear up the confusion. If your local grocery store burns down (God forbid) and then food has to be transported in from elsewhere which incurs costs, those costs will be reflected in the prices of the food sold at the stand outside the smoking ruins of the grocery store. That is not inflation, strictly speaking, though people will use this as an example of "price inflation". If a central bank stops printing money, inflation is licked. Period. Prices may still go up and down for other reasons.


Isn’t prices going up the very definition of price inflation?

You seem to be defining monetary inflation.

The current spike in consumer prices is very much a matter of supply and demand issues, actual and potential, no?


No. Inflation is, by definition, is the increase in the money supply. A general rise in prices is the result of inflation.

Not blaming you for the confusion either. This matter is very, very poorly discussed in the mainstream.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:57
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Where am I? Feb 23, 2022

Paul Lambert wrote:

..... This matter is very, very poorly discussed in the mainstream.


Is this the mainstream?


Christopher Schröder
P.L.F. Persio
 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 14:57
German to English
. Feb 23, 2022

Ice Scream wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:
So you'll continue to charge high prices that enable you to have a good standard of living but you don't want to see the lowest paid workers in the economy earn a little more to match inflation? That seems a bit selfish.


Did I say any of that?

I was just regurgitating textbook economics. Yes the spike in inflation will hit the poorest hard, but the solution is not to hike wages, which could make the problem last longer, but to subsidise their bills somehow.


Sorry but you did say that you were against employers giving their workers pay rises. And as for less well-off people having their bills subsidised "somehow", do you mean by the state? That might mean governments raising taxes and/or incurring more debt. No thanks. Let employers - at least the ones that can afford it - pay their workers a living wage.


 
LIZ LI
LIZ LI  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 20:57
French to Chinese
+ ...
Dare not to ask Feb 24, 2022

Ice Scream wrote:

Isn’t prices going up the very definition of price inflation?

You seem to be defining monetary inflation.

The current spike in consumer prices is very much a matter of supply and demand issues, actual and potential, no?


Paul Lambert wrote:
No. Inflation is, by definition, is the increase in the money supply. A general rise in prices is the result of inflation.

Not blaming you for the confusion either. This matter is very, very poorly discussed in the mainstream.


This becomes a chicken-or-the-egg question...

But my centuries-old textbook told me that the price rises are rooted in the increase of production costs.
And the central banks won't increase their supply until they realize there IS actually a shortage of cash in most places.


Christopher Schröder
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Mr. Satan (X)
Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
Green people Feb 24, 2022

Jan Truper wrote:

I'm one of the "green people" in Germany


I'm one of the green people, too. So I ask: why is Germany shutting down their nuclear reactors and hippity hoppity went back to coal energy?


 
Evgeny Sidorenko
Evgeny Sidorenko
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:57
English to Russian
+ ...
Tack ska du ha Feb 24, 2022

Paul Lambert wrote:

Evgeny Sidorenko wrote:

I can't just sit and watch things get more expensive everyday without fighting back by earning more on my side. Inflation has become so visible during the last 3-4 months, so yes I have started to raise my rates, which is more or less successful depending on the client. I still have to think how to handle the everyday living costs and leave the global matters to economists and governments. I guess it's easier to speculate about economic theories living in more stable countries in Europe, but I can't really see what else there is to do with inflation at 'personal' level.


Historically, the only thing individuals can do to hedge inflation is to put your savings in gold or silver. They tend not to lose their intrinsic value, i.e., in 1900 one ounce of gold would support a family for a week. In 2022, one ounce of gold will do the same.

In this context, cash is a perishable good that goes bad the longer you leave it. When you need to spend money, you can sell you gold, but then the cash starts "going bad" right away.


Sure, I will buy a few chunks of gold and an oil barrell as well next time, I think they have en stor rabatt for that now.


 
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Prices and inflation







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