| Stran v tématu: [1 2 3 4] > | When did "probably" become "likely? Autor vlákna: Tom in London
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Tom in London
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
Člen (2008)
italština -> angličtina
This mainly seems to be happening in American English.
I've noticed that the beautiful word "probably" has now been replaced with "likely".
This substitution produces an ugly result when placed in context (to my ears "I'll probably come tomorrow" sounds more mellifluous than "I'll likely come tomorrow").
Why has this happened? Any theories, you linguistics experts out there?
I'll probably never adopt this change myself because if I did, I wou... See more This mainly seems to be happening in American English.
I've noticed that the beautiful word "probably" has now been replaced with "likely".
This substitution produces an ugly result when placed in context (to my ears "I'll probably come tomorrow" sounds more mellifluous than "I'll likely come tomorrow").
Why has this happened? Any theories, you linguistics experts out there?
I'll probably never adopt this change myself because if I did, I would have to say "I'll likely never adopt this change myself" and that's not likely to happen ! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Nizozemsko
Local time: 16:16
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> afrikánština
+ ...
| To my non-US ear | Oct 12, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote:
This mainly seems to be happening in American English.
I've noticed that the beautiful word "probably" has now been replaced with "likely".
To my non-native non-US ear, "likely" sounds friendlier than "probably". Or rather, "probably" sounds like it implies more uncertainty than "likely" does. I'm not saying that that is what I think the terms mean -- I'm just telling you what the sound that the terms make in my skull says to me.
Do I understand the grammar correctly that "likely" can (or should) only describe a noun, whereas "probably" can only describe a verb? You can use "probable" for a noun, but what would the form of "likely" be that one would have to use for a verb, then (if any)?
[Edited at 2013-10-12 09:40 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
Člen (2008)
italština -> angličtina
AUTOR TÉMATU
Samuel Murray wrote: Tom in London wrote:
This mainly seems to be happening in American English.
I've noticed that the beautiful word "probably" has now been replaced with "likely". To my non-native non-US ear, "likely" sounds friendlier than "probably". Or rather, "probably" sounds like it implies more uncertainty than "likely" does. I'm not saying that that is what I think the terms mean -- I'm just telling you what the sound that the terms make in my skull says to me. Do I understand the grammar correctly that "likely" can (or should) only describe a noun, whereas "probably" can only describe a verb? You can use "probable" for a noun, but what would the form of "likely" be that one would have to use for a verb, then (if any)? [Edited at 2013-10-12 09:40 GMT]
Well - we're agreeing (I think) that there is a difference, and a significant one, in the meanings of the two words. What irks me is that (some) Americans seem to be conflating the two.
As for "likely" sounding more "friendly", that would depend. I don't know whether "I'm likely going to kill you" sounds more friendly than "I'm probably going to kill you". That would be debatable.
My own (questionable) theory is that it has something to do with the fact that in American English, thanks to Internet-speak, "probably" was degraded into the childish "prolly" and that now the new (mis)usage of "likely" is somehow a consequence of that. But I could be wrong (and prolly am).
[Edited at 2013-10-12 09:52 GMT]
| | | | Jennifer Forbes
Local time: 15:16
francouzština -> angličtina
+ ...
In memoriam
I think the widespread preference for "likely" over "probably" is part of the fashion for adopting Americanisms generally, perhaps (probably?) because they sound more dashing and exciting to our British ears - consider the almost complete disappearance of "railway station" in favour (favor?) of "train station".
I find it all a bit annoying but I know there is no point in railing against changes in usage - 'twas ever thus.
J
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Tom in London
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
Člen (2008)
italština -> angličtina
AUTOR TÉMATU
Jenny Forbes wrote:
I think the widespread preference for "likely" over "probably" is part of the fashion for adopting Americanisms generally, perhaps (probably?) because they sound more dashing and exciting to our British ears - consider the almost complete disappearance of "railway station" in favour (favor?) of "train station".
I find it all a bit annoying but I know there is no point in railing against changes in usage - 'twas ever thus.
J
I fear you overestimate the power of American English to degrade British English, as though British English were weak and American English strong. I don't think it's like that at all.
And I don't find Americans "dashing and exciting" or as they might put it "cool and awesome" (pronounced "ah-some").
[Edited at 2013-10-12 10:20 GMT]
| | | | LEXpert
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 09:16
Člen (2008)
chorvatština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Likely vs. most likely | Oct 12, 2013 |
Samuel wrote
Do I understand the grammar correctly that "likely" can (or should) only describe a noun, whereas "probably" can only describe a verb? You can use "probable" for a noun, but what would the form of "likely" be that one would have to use for a verb, then (if any)?
As a US EN native, I'd say that you've got it right. I'd never use "likely" for "probably" in the examples Tom mentions, or elsewhere for that matter, and it just sounds wrong. However, I don't even think it's especially common in American English use to "likely" - on its own - as an adverb, so I'm not so sure that the Americans are to really to blame for this development.
However, the adverbial combination "most likely" seems to be extremely common ("We'll most likely just stay in tonight and watch a DVD").
Tom in London wrote:
My own (questionable) theory is that it has something to do with the fact that in American English, thanks to Internet-speak, "probably" was degraded into the childish "prolly" and that now the new (mis)usage of "likely" is somehow a consequence of that. But I could be wrong (and prolly am).
[Edited at 2013-10-12 09:52 GMT]
In writing or speech? I've never seen anyone write it as prolly, even casually, but one could indeed argue that pronunciation of the spoken form has degraded.
[Edited at 2013-10-12 10:34 GMT]
| | | | Jack Doughty
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
ruština -> angličtina
+ ...
In memoriam | It's not only American | Oct 12, 2013 |
When I was young, "hopefully" just meant anticipating something good. Now it is more often used like the German "hoffentlich" - "Hopefully I'll come tomorrow" doesn't mean I am going to turn up tomorrow full of joy and eager anticipation, it means "I hope I'll be able to come tomorrow".
| | | | Tom in London
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
Člen (2008)
italština -> angličtina
AUTOR TÉMATU
Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
.......(snip) I've never seen anyone write it as prolly, even casually, but one could indeed argue that pronunciation of the spoken form has degraded.
I used to see "prolly" written by Americans ("Murcans") all the time when I was an IRC addict.....a long time ago...
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cranium
francouzština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Isn't likely likelier? | Oct 12, 2013 |
Canadian here. (Lexical middle child?) If I am likely to do something, it is almost 100% certain. As for "prolly", are you sure it was a North American using it? It's not related to "brolly"? I've never heard or read it on either side of the pond.
| | | | | I've also never seen or heard 'prolly' used by anyone | Oct 12, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote: Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
.......(snip) I've never seen anyone write it as prolly, even casually, but one could indeed argue that pronunciation of the spoken form has degraded. I used to see "prolly" written by Americans ("Murcans") all the time when I was an IRC addict.....a long time ago...
Sometimes "Murcanisms" are actually throwbacks to ye olde English that remained on the continent after the Brits decided to pull out and return home...... will a bit of persuasion from the "Murcans" of course. And some "Murcanisms" are there as a result of Irish influences.
As for the beautiful word probably being replaced by likely, it probably could happen but it's not likely.
| | | | Tom in London
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
Člen (2008)
italština -> angličtina
AUTOR TÉMATU | Disappearing words | Oct 12, 2013 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
(snip) consider the almost complete disappearance of "railway station" in favour (favor?) of "train station".
Words that seem to have succumbed:
"Mortuary" replaced by "morgue".
"Lorry" replaced by "truck".
"Chemist's shop" replaced by "Pharmacy"
Etc.
But I refuse to abandon "probably".
[Edited at 2013-10-12 11:13 GMT]
| | | | LilianNekipelov
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 10:16
ruština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Where did you hear it, Tom? | Oct 12, 2013 |
It is not that common, at least not in my area, or even on TV. "Most likely" -- yes, but not "likely". "I will most likely come tomorrow." "Likely" sounds strange to me as well, but different people like different expressions. "I am not likely to do it" -- but this would be a different use.
I think "most likely" in this type of construction has been around both in British and American English for as long as I remember -- like about forty years (possibly for centuries). If someo... See more It is not that common, at least not in my area, or even on TV. "Most likely" -- yes, but not "likely". "I will most likely come tomorrow." "Likely" sounds strange to me as well, but different people like different expressions. "I am not likely to do it" -- but this would be a different use.
I think "most likely" in this type of construction has been around both in British and American English for as long as I remember -- like about forty years (possibly for centuries). If someone uses just "likely" -- it might be a shortened form, in my opinion from "most likely" Whether you like it or not, might be a different story.
[Edited at 2013-10-12 11:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Usage you know | Oct 12, 2013 |
Usage takes over more and more words, under the theme "Anything goes..."
Alternative is no longer alternative, it can mean options.
Unique is now often a question of more or less unique.
A bilge pump is no longer only a bilge pump.
And so on and so forward(?).
When is a kiss not a kiss?
| | | | Ty Kendall
Velká Británie
Local time: 15:16
hebrejština -> angličtina
| Semantically similar, syntactically different | Oct 12, 2013 |
probably
adverb
/ˈprɒb.ə.bli/ US /ˈprɑː.bə-/
used to mean that something is very likely: I'll probably be home by midnight. I'm probably going - it depends on the weather. He probably didn't even notice. Probably the best thing to do is to call them before you go.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/probably
... See more probably
adverb
/ˈprɒb.ə.bli/ US /ˈprɑː.bə-/
used to mean that something is very likely: I'll probably be home by midnight. I'm probably going - it depends on the weather. He probably didn't even notice. Probably the best thing to do is to call them before you go.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/probably
likely
adjective
/ˈlaɪ.kli/
describes something that will probably happen or is expected: Do remind me because I'm likely to forget. What's the likely outcome of this whole business? I suppose that might happen but it's not very likely.
[+ that] It's quite likely that we'll be in Spain this time next year.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/likely_1?q=likely
When "likely" is used as an adverb convention has it that it be used with another modifier (most, more, very, not).
I don't think there is a vast difference in semantic meaning between the two, that's why people use them interchangeably. I don't see a massive difference between:
I probably won't forget the number
and
I'm not likely to forget the number
The following link has some interesting things to say about it:
http://www.cjr.org/language_corner/probably_likely.php
and....
https://elt.oup.com/student/englishfile/upperint/e_minigrammar/nef_upperint_minigrammar03?cc=gb&selLanguage=en (I scored 6/6!)
....but much of this is just prescriptivist rambling, if these two words are to merge and/or become almost* completely interchangeable, then so be it.
*I say almost because I can't see them becoming 100% interchangeable any time soon, with one word answers I would most certainly use "probably" as "likely" sounds quite odd to me as a one word answer (but note: as a two-word answer ('most likely' or 'not likely' it's fine)
[Edited at 2013-10-12 12:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 09:16
Člen (2008)
chorvatština -> angličtina
+ ...
| We know how to pronounce "awesome" | Oct 12, 2013 |
Tom in London wrote:
"awesome" (pronounced "ah-some").
???
We pronounce awesome "awe-some". Nobody says "ah-some", which would probably sound unnaturally nasal.
Perhaps you were listening to some bad movie or TV imitation of a New England accent.
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