| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | KudoZ: Voting for Reclassification of Questions Thread poster: Anne Greaves
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| Since Kudoz pretends to be so "specific" | Mar 7, 2010 |
The few questions I sent were more or less NON- PRO- - and as such I posted them - since You did not need a Dictionary. But very much Skills to interpretate what I was looking for! That was much more difficult than finding an answer in internet. A kind of Christmas cakes...
Try to adapt that to the Country! It's much more difficult than to find a technical term-
There should be another solution - maybe the use of the disagree. !I simply disagree with what You said! It's n... See more The few questions I sent were more or less NON- PRO- - and as such I posted them - since You did not need a Dictionary. But very much Skills to interpretate what I was looking for! That was much more difficult than finding an answer in internet. A kind of Christmas cakes...
Try to adapt that to the Country! It's much more difficult than to find a technical term-
There should be another solution - maybe the use of the disagree. !I simply disagree with what You said! It's not a sentence life-time or Death- ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne Greaves 
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:58
French to English
TOPIC STARTER | A site for pro translators | Mar 7, 2010 |
Of course this is a site for pro translators, but does that exclude new translators?Perhaps Proz should ask for 5 years experience like some agencies! Effective research needs to be learnt, like all other aspects of the job, and acquiring all the dictionaries you may need takes time.
writeaway wrote: Enrique wrote: Stéphanie Soudais wrote: Hello Ann, The pro/non-pro question has been recently discussed in http://eng.proz.com/forum/kudoz/155663-clearing_up_pro_non_pro_confusion.html (and in many other threads) Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Although not in your language pair, I also propose reclassification sometimes. I do so when I feel that the context, a reasonably ample dictionary, and a bit of experience are enough to think of an answer.
Non-PRO questions are those that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary. http://eng.proz.com/faq/2764#2764 Stéphanie Thanks Stéphanie, The non-PRO category was introduced to deal with questions such as "I love you", that could be answered by any bilingual person, without any special qualification and without the aid of a dictionary. Questions that would require a specialist OR the aid of a dictionary, should be PRO. There are no plans to modify or eliminate this feature. Regards, Enrique Hi Enrique, Without knocking the idea that someone may want to know how to say "I love you" in a given language, the notion that any term more "difficult" than this is automatically "pro" level is really setting the bar very very low indeed. As for www searches, many times people know the answer without looking it up, but then do a www search or quote from a dictionary to provide refs. Which still means they knew the answer without looking it up. I must say given these circumstance, I add my vote to those who say remove all classification. After all, by setting the level so low, any classification is basically meaningless. They are just "questions". Calling an easy question "pro" doesn't make it pro in any case. It's a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes. However if the bar is going to remain this low, then perhaps giving some teeth to rule 2.1 may alleviate some of the problems.
| | | | Anne Greaves
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:58
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Well I'm quite happy to plead guilty to taking it all too seriously, but not to being huffy. I think it might be easy for experienced translators to forget just how difficult it is to get established in this profession, especially without the benefit of in-house training.
My main points are:
1.The system is discouraging, especially for inexperienced translators
2. It's too subjective
3. It's entirely uneccessary.
I agree entirely with Susan Welsh's remarks that talk... See more Well I'm quite happy to plead guilty to taking it all too seriously, but not to being huffy. I think it might be easy for experienced translators to forget just how difficult it is to get established in this profession, especially without the benefit of in-house training.
My main points are:
1.The system is discouraging, especially for inexperienced translators
2. It's too subjective
3. It's entirely uneccessary.
I agree entirely with Susan Welsh's remarks that talk about being pro/ not pro enough is silly. So why operate the distinction at all? writeaway wrote: Susan Welsh wrote:
Do your research first. If you still can't figure it out, ask a question. Provide even more context than you think is necessary. Don't be afraid of what others will say. If you think your question might be an obvious question to someone better qualified, call it "non-pro." For sure, if you don't know the answer, then it's hard to say whether a bilingual person would know it with or without a dictionary. I've been in that position myself quite a few times. Sometimes people make snide remarks, sometimes they don't.
All this talk about are we "pro" or are some of us "not pro enough" seems a bit silly to me. Most of us are trying to do the best job we can. We have varying degrees of experience and linguistic fluency. Nobody is perfect and we are all trying to improve. The way you improve is by experience--including by having people point out your errors. Keep at it, and keep learning.
Please stop taking the pro/non-pro thing so personally. We all get questions voted up or down. So what? It's not a personal attack, there is nothing to get huffy about. Pro means a difficult question and not-pro means a question that isn't difficult. Pro translators ask all sorts of questions at all levels. Taking the voting seriously is bad enough but taking it personally is really taking it too far. Kudoz has to get away from this kindergarten-style bickering if it's going to continue to function. Rant over. [Edited at 2010-03-06 18:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dave Bindon
Greece
Local time: 22:58
Greek to English
In memoriam
Anne,
As other's have said, I think you just have to ignore it. What makes someone "bilingual" anyway? What's easy to one person may not be easy to another.
This thread has made me think of a very recent query in my own language pair. Someone asked for the translation of a Greek word, and I had absolutely no hesitation in giving an English translation - although I put a comment "is this too easy?", not meaning "is this non-Pro?", but meaning "am I taking this too l... See more Anne,
As other's have said, I think you just have to ignore it. What makes someone "bilingual" anyway? What's easy to one person may not be easy to another.
This thread has made me think of a very recent query in my own language pair. Someone asked for the translation of a Greek word, and I had absolutely no hesitation in giving an English translation - although I put a comment "is this too easy?", not meaning "is this non-Pro?", but meaning "am I taking this too literally, have I misunderstood the original?". All peer comments have been "agree", and nobody has suggested another translation. However, as far as I'm aware, nobody has suggested downgrading it to a non-Pro question.
I've now looked back at the word in question, and have realized a few things... Firstly, I've never seen or heard the word before, but "knew" what it meant. Secondly, the word isn't in my bilingual dictionary. Thirdly, the word isn't even in most mono-lingual Greek dictionaries! So where does that leave it in the Pro/non-Pro divide? Non-Pro, as the answer seemed blindingly obvious to me and others? Or very much Pro, as the word isn't even in most Greek dictionaries?
As someone else suggested, make sure you provide the context to your question and, if appropriate, some indication that you have tried to find an answer yourself. ▲ Collapse
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Anne Greaves
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:58
French to English
TOPIC STARTER | Good advice Dave, thanks. Airing this has helped me get the whole thing in perspective at least! | Mar 7, 2010 |
Dave Bindon wrote:
Anne,
As other's have said, I think you just have to ignore it. What makes someone "bilingual" anyway? What's easy to one person may not be easy to another.
This thread has made me think of a very recent query in my own language pair. Someone asked for the translation of a Greek word, and I had absolutely no hesitation in giving an English translation - although I put a comment "is this too easy?", not meaning "is this non-Pro?", but meaning "am I taking this too literally, have I misunderstood the original?". All peer comments have been "agree", and nobody has suggested another translation. However, as far as I'm aware, nobody has suggested downgrading it to a non-Pro question.
I've now looked back at the word in question, and have realized a few things... Firstly, I've never seen or heard the word before, but "knew" what it meant. Secondly, the word isn't in my bilingual dictionary. Thirdly, the word isn't even in most mono-lingual Greek dictionaries! So where does that leave it in the Pro/non-Pro divide? Non-Pro, as the answer seemed blindingly obvious to me and others? Or very much Pro, as the word isn't even in most Greek dictionaries?
As someone else suggested, make sure you provide the context to your question and, if appropriate, some indication that you have tried to find an answer yourself.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:58
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Do your own research | Mar 7, 2010 |
Enrique wrote:
Questions that would require a specialist OR the aid of a dictionary, should be PRO.
If we are all professional translators here, why on earth are we spending our very valuable time answering questions, whether classified as Pro or Non-Pro, that can be found in any dictionary? Isn't it a basic part of our job to do research ie looking it up?
I am perfectly prepared to help any translator with expressions (rather than words) that can be really difficult to tie down, especially if you don't live in the country where the language is spoken.
I am perfectly prepared to help any translator with words that don't seem to be used in any of the ways proposed by dictionaries.
I am NOT prepared to spend my time answering a question, Pro or Non-Pro, to save someone else (professional translator or amateur) looking it up in a dictionary, on the web, in the glossary. To be a worthwhile, professional answer it must be accompanied by explanation and/or references - why should I do that when the asker could, and indeed should, have done it?
Frankly, I'm happy to help with the translation of "I love you" if the asker gives a valid reason for needing it. You can't look that up in a dictionary and you can't really be sure of getting it right if you search through grammar books - I'd rather help someone to say it correctly than leave them to their own devices and possibly wreck the rest of their life by saying "I love him/her".
By the way, the title above refers to this post, not directly to Anne, the original poster
| | | | | The meaning of the "PRO" category in the context of "help" KudoZ | Mar 7, 2010 |
Please note that in the context of "help" KudoZ, the "PRO" category means a term unlikely to be properly translated by a randomly selected bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary. This definition assumes nothing about the profesionalism of askers or answerers.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | ProZ.com is an open and welcoming community | Mar 7, 2010 |
ProZ.com's workplace has been structured in such a way as to invite and welcome the participation of language professionals or those with language needs, including those who are only occasional visitors or just passers-by. In collaborative areas, everyone - and all contributions - are welcome.
Of course users are free to decide whether they want to provide help or not to a given "help" KudoZ question or asker.
Regards,
Enrique
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