Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
indemnité de dommages et intérêts
English translation:
damages
Added to glossary by
Michael Lotz
Feb 22, 2011 08:56
13 yrs ago
17 viewers *
French term
indemnité de dommages et intérêts
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
end of a court judgment
"Condamne solidairement XXX et YYY à payer à ZZZ la somme de 20.000 Euros au titre d'indemnité de dommages et intérêts,"
I thought damages *were* compensation... do we ever say "damages compensation" in EN? I get some hits along these lines on Google but am tempted to think this is just bad rédaction in both languages.
"Condamne solidairement XXX et YYY à payer à ZZZ la somme de 20.000 Euros au titre d'indemnité de dommages et intérêts,"
I thought damages *were* compensation... do we ever say "damages compensation" in EN? I get some hits along these lines on Google but am tempted to think this is just bad rédaction in both languages.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | damages |
Michael Lotz
|
| 3 +1 | damages and interest |
David Wright
|
| 3 | as compensation for damages |
Rebecca Davis
|
| 2 | dommages et intérêts |
guittoun
|
References
| compensation / damages |
Martin Cassell
|
Change log
Feb 28, 2011 12:46: Michael Lotz Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
1 hr
Selected
damages
One suggestion which the law dictionaries support.
Perhaps more than one formulation is indeed acceptable. In any event, the meaning is clear for all of them.
"indemnité de dommages et intérêts" = damages
according to Dalloz Dico. juridique.
dommages & intérêts = damages.
no need to also use the word "interest", which is included in "damages" here. (Dalloz).
indemnité = damages, as well. No need to also use the word compensation.
2nd ref: Bridge's Council of Europe Legal Dico.
Perhaps more than one formulation is indeed acceptable. In any event, the meaning is clear for all of them.
"indemnité de dommages et intérêts" = damages
according to Dalloz Dico. juridique.
dommages & intérêts = damages.
no need to also use the word "interest", which is included in "damages" here. (Dalloz).
indemnité = damages, as well. No need to also use the word compensation.
2nd ref: Bridge's Council of Europe Legal Dico.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Martin Cassell
: "sentenced to pay nnnnn in damages" is the typical formula in anglophone court cases.
35 mins
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thanks Martin
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: definitely
2 hrs
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thanks AllegroTrans
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| agree |
Andrew Mason
3 hrs
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thanks Andrew
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| agree |
Liliane Hatem
5 hrs
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thanks Liliane
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| agree |
cmwilliams (X)
12 hrs
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thanks cmwilliams
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks - so you actually found the phrase "indemnité de dommages et intérêts" in Dalloz... "
33 mins
Rebecca Davis
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Qualified financial & legal translator
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Latin to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
39
as compensation for damages
I would structure it like this, the "interest" bit is optional
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-22 10:05:45 GMT)
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The "as" translates "à titre de"
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-22 10:05:45 GMT)
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The "as" translates "à titre de"
Note from asker:
| thanks... but this is a tad odd to me: "compensation FOR damages"... the damages are compensation FOR an injury... |
| have to agree with D Wright... "dommages" in this context is a faux ami... does not mean the harm itself, it means cash in recompense for an injury (as this term is understood in legalese) |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
David Wright
: if you want to take this approach, then you would have to say compensation "for losses" (See note by asker)
55 mins
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No I wouldn't...Check it out
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| neutral |
Julie Barber
: I wouldn't put "compensation for damages" together either. Just "as compensation" or "as payment of compensentation"
2 hrs
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+1
3 mins
damages and interest
You're right, it is all the same thing. I would translate as I suggest (have often done so and no one has complained yet!)
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-22 10:25:33 GMT)
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reply: Hmm. I conceive of damages being the amount claimed, which will relate to a specific time in the past when the loss was incurred by the plaintiff. In addition, interest is payable on this amount as from this date up to the date when it is paid out. I suspect that in English courts this might all go under the heading of damages, but in German and French courts I think they are calculated separately.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-22 11:06:30 GMT)
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reply: Aha. Interesting point. I've just checked with the legal dictionary published by Litec and it suggests you are indeed correct. In which case Mr Lotz seems to have the right answer!
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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-22 11:08:23 GMT)
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reply: Litec gives both forms as being equivalent! It's this difference that confused me a little. (lousy excuse, really!)
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-22 10:25:33 GMT)
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reply: Hmm. I conceive of damages being the amount claimed, which will relate to a specific time in the past when the loss was incurred by the plaintiff. In addition, interest is payable on this amount as from this date up to the date when it is paid out. I suspect that in English courts this might all go under the heading of damages, but in German and French courts I think they are calculated separately.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-22 11:06:30 GMT)
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reply: Aha. Interesting point. I've just checked with the legal dictionary published by Litec and it suggests you are indeed correct. In which case Mr Lotz seems to have the right answer!
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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-22 11:08:23 GMT)
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reply: Litec gives both forms as being equivalent! It's this difference that confused me a little. (lousy excuse, really!)
Note from asker:
| thanks... though people have always told me its just "damages" for D&I - any view? |
| Ok, thanks again. I see you are a specialist and therefore well worth listening to... but my understanding has always been that "intérêts" in this legalese phrase is nothing to do with monetary interest, but more akin to an *explanation* of why you're getting those "dommages"... i.e. "damages due to your interests being impaired/attacked/prejudiced in some way"... I'm going to look at the archives here to see if anyone has ever shed any light... |
| In fact I believe there may be confusion about this in France itself. The phrase used to be "dommages-intérêts", which would be difficult to interpret along the lines you're suggesting. But many French texts now use "dommages et intérêts". Worth investigating anyhow! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: multi-million ghits for "damages and interest"
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Martin Cassell
: surely there's a danger that EN "interest" could be taken refer to monetary interest added to a base sum (as you mention), which I'm sure is not the meaning of the FR "interêts" here
3 hrs
|
934 days
dommages et intérêts
I think that 'dommage' is for that what is due regarding the that damage that has been done to X or Y . 'intérêts' is for what has been lost in the process, meaning what could have been achieved if not ...
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Note added at 934 days (2013-09-13 23:27:00 GMT) Post-grading
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'intérêts' actually meaning profit. i.e. the profit lost.
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Note added at 934 days (2013-09-13 23:27:00 GMT) Post-grading
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'intérêts' actually meaning profit. i.e. the profit lost.
Reference comments
2 hrs
Martin Cassell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
25 years as a specialist communicator
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
Reference:
compensation / damages
according to the EC Glossary
http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQuery.do?method=searc...
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Note added at 5 hrs (2011-02-22 14:16:09 GMT)
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Domain Insurance, Intellectual property, LAW
fr
Definition somme d'argent due en réparation du dommage causé par l'inexécution, la mauvaise exécution ou l'exécution tardive d'une obligation.
Definition Ref. Cornu, Vocabulaire juridique.
Note XREF: dommage (A030966); réparation (A171946); indemnité (A054710).;MISC: en principe, l'indemnité répare, quant à elle, le dommage causé par un délit ou un quasi-délit; dans la pratique, toutefois, "dommages et intérêts" et "indemnité" sont employés indifféremment.;UPDATED: ERS 11/09/2002
Term dommages-intérêts
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. pour "dommages et intérêts": arrêt du TPI du 10.10.2001, Recueil 2001, p. II-2967, point 36; pour "dommages-intérêts": ordonnance du président de la CJCE du 13.11.2001, Recueil 2001, p. I-8547, point 13.
Date 01/01/1982
Term dommages et intérêts
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. pour "dommages et intérêts": arrêt du TPI du 10.10.2001, Recueil 2001, p. II-2967, point 36; pour "dommages-intérêts": ordonnance du président de la CJCE du 13.11.2001, Recueil 2001, p. I-8547, point 13.
Date 01/01/1982
en
Term damages
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. "compensation" - European Communities Glossary - 8th Edition
Date 01/01/1982
Term compensation
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. "compensation" - European Communities Glossary - 8th Edition
Date 01/01/1982
http://iate.europa.eu/iatediff/SearchByQuery.do?method=searc...
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Note added at 5 hrs (2011-02-22 14:16:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Domain Insurance, Intellectual property, LAW
fr
Definition somme d'argent due en réparation du dommage causé par l'inexécution, la mauvaise exécution ou l'exécution tardive d'une obligation.
Definition Ref. Cornu, Vocabulaire juridique.
Note XREF: dommage (A030966); réparation (A171946); indemnité (A054710).;MISC: en principe, l'indemnité répare, quant à elle, le dommage causé par un délit ou un quasi-délit; dans la pratique, toutefois, "dommages et intérêts" et "indemnité" sont employés indifféremment.;UPDATED: ERS 11/09/2002
Term dommages-intérêts
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. pour "dommages et intérêts": arrêt du TPI du 10.10.2001, Recueil 2001, p. II-2967, point 36; pour "dommages-intérêts": ordonnance du président de la CJCE du 13.11.2001, Recueil 2001, p. I-8547, point 13.
Date 01/01/1982
Term dommages et intérêts
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. pour "dommages et intérêts": arrêt du TPI du 10.10.2001, Recueil 2001, p. II-2967, point 36; pour "dommages-intérêts": ordonnance du président de la CJCE du 13.11.2001, Recueil 2001, p. I-8547, point 13.
Date 01/01/1982
en
Term damages
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. "compensation" - European Communities Glossary - 8th Edition
Date 01/01/1982
Term compensation
Reliability 3 (Reliable)
Term Ref. "compensation" - European Communities Glossary - 8th Edition
Date 01/01/1982
Discussion