| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Why I am NOT a Proz member. Tópico cartaz: David Wigtil
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Rod Walters 
Japão
Local time: 08:07
japonês para inglês
| Targeted technical remedies | Dec 1, 2008 |
Enrique, that must have been a headache to deal with. My sympathies with that! Fortunately, it does look as though the site as a whole has moved on from that.
However, in cases of egregious abuse of anonymity, isn't a technical solution like blocking the IP possible? I believe you can make the site essentially invisible to selected IPs. This sort of technical remedy allows for a much more targeted response that doesn't negatively affect other users.
Would that be poss... See more Enrique, that must have been a headache to deal with. My sympathies with that! Fortunately, it does look as though the site as a whole has moved on from that.
However, in cases of egregious abuse of anonymity, isn't a technical solution like blocking the IP possible? I believe you can make the site essentially invisible to selected IPs. This sort of technical remedy allows for a much more targeted response that doesn't negatively affect other users.
Would that be possible? ▲ Collapse
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Rod Walters wrote:
However, in cases of egregious abuse of anonymity, isn't a technical solution like blocking the IP possible? I believe you can make the site essentially invisible to selected IPs. This sort of technical remedy allows for a much more targeted response that doesn't negatively affect other users.
Would that be possible?
Not really. Many users work with dynamically assigned Ip addresses, so blocking a troll's IP address may mean blocking good citizens as well.
On the other hand the vetting mechanism is a well proven and effective tool.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | Salam Alrawi
Estados Unidos
Local time: 18:07
inglês para árabe
+ ...
| I would suggest mail | Dec 1, 2008 |
I think any try of any kind that include time wouldn't be that much effictive, cause as I know people can buy and/or sell emails and sign(s) up of any kind,
For example: I saw on a website (without mentioning its name), the job poster asked for someone to help him getting a number of signs up on a website that is not his website, and to post regular posts on its forum (just normal posts) for 3 or 6 (I can't remember exactly) months term long, of course the guy didn't mention the name of th... See more I think any try of any kind that include time wouldn't be that much effictive, cause as I know people can buy and/or sell emails and sign(s) up of any kind,
For example: I saw on a website (without mentioning its name), the job poster asked for someone to help him getting a number of signs up on a website that is not his website, and to post regular posts on its forum (just normal posts) for 3 or 6 (I can't remember exactly) months term long, of course the guy didn't mention the name of the website and not the purpose of it (not in public), and you know what? many people applied for that job,
My point is: if someone want to hurt this site, then I guess he/she would be patient for 3 months, I know spammers wouldn't wait that long, but I am sure someone might do it with intention, and I am sure there are many other ways that some "bad guys" found,
Nowadays, you might see someone who offer $$$$ for 100 000 yahoo mails, or 1000 000 gamils, MSN ...etc.,
on one occasion, I've got an email from my colleague here saying that he is stuck in Nijeria and he needs $5000 as a help to get him out of there!, the spammers hacked his email and used it to send messages and he didn't even know about it,
proz.com is one of those high ranked business website and is the first professional translation website in the world and I am sure many spammers (or non spammers) are waiting for a chance, just one simple chance,
Nowadays, we can't even imagine what kind of programs and scripts are written, I have watched a programming website for really long time and you would be really impressed about the kind of programs they do there!,
so you should be careful,
I know the credit or debit cards verification is a good one, but I agree with Kevin in his point about (cards and bank account), I as I was waiting for refugee I couldn't open a bank account with all the documents and papers and IDs that I have provided the bank with, all the legal documents didn't work, and in my country many people don't know those cards, so the idea is effictive but doesn't apply for everybody,
Now I admit going to PwWow and meeting a proz.com member is a really wonderful way, specially that now proz.com members are everywhere in the world, but I guess only in my country (I don't know if there is another country) but I know in my country it is hard because of the security situation,
Now I want to clarify that I am not complaining, in fact I thank proz.com for giving me the chance of being part of its society, but since this matter came up and you are trying to find a better way for it, then I would suggest mail,
According to mail, you can verify address and name of that patient,
either 1 way mail: in which the member send a mail to proz.com address and provide some document copy that verify him/her,
or 2 ways mail: in which the member send a mail to proz.com address and provide some document copy that verify him/her and then proz.com send a mail back with a code number that the member should input it somewhere in the site to verify him/her self,
with a condition that the member should verify his complete address and there should be something that make sure each address is unique and any 2 members can't have the same address, unless if they are brothers/sisters, then they should submit a request to proz.com and explain the situation,
I am sure this idea of mail could also have disadvantages, but I still thought of sugessting it and I am sure you have more experience here than I have,
Thank you very much,
Best regards,
Salam Alrawi ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rod Walters
Japão
Local time: 08:07
japonês para inglês
Okay, I see there might be a problem with that.
Well I think you've had an opportunity to get the measure of me as a member of the forum. I'm not enjoying posting with this time lag, so I'll wait to hear what you decide about my suggestions.
Best wishes
Rod
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| 3 months and/or 12 posts sounds good to me | Dec 1, 2008 |
Or even fewer posts - perhaps half a dozen. I agree with Kevin that the time lag can be annoying for paying members too, due to thread disjointedness if nothing else. The idea of a shortish vetting period for new profiles seems an ideal compromise to me.
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 00:07
alemão para inglês
+ ...
| Private ID confirmation | Dec 1, 2008 |
Another possibility is to request a scanned / faxed copy of some sort of ID to put on file. So staff would perhaps know the private identity of the pseudonym in case there are problems.
Of course, hear too there are possible reasons for concern which I can understand in a distant way. Some of our colleagues who post openly here live in countries where I am told that all sort of political oppression and economic blackmail can occur, and if I were living on a certain island in the Car... See more Another possibility is to request a scanned / faxed copy of some sort of ID to put on file. So staff would perhaps know the private identity of the pseudonym in case there are problems.
Of course, hear too there are possible reasons for concern which I can understand in a distant way. Some of our colleagues who post openly here live in countries where I am told that all sort of political oppression and economic blackmail can occur, and if I were living on a certain island in the Caribbean known for its kidnappings, I would certainly be much more discreet when talking about any business success.
In any case, with all the mental energy we've invested in this so far, I hope Rod can simply be granted an "amnesty" to post as the first in what I hope will be a long series of non-paying members who do in fact pay with their very worthwhile contributions. There's one guy I think of frequently who is either a non-member or maybe a partial one, and his contributions are so useful and funny that I sometimes think we ought to be paying him. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Salam Alrawi
Estados Unidos
Local time: 18:07
inglês para árabe
+ ...
Hi Kevin,
This is a post from a colleague on another forum:
(Good temptation 12:19
Please Ralf and all the colleagues, there is something I can't comprehend very well, though I am not totally new in proz.com but I want someone to illustrate this issue for me.
Is there any way in proz.com to get a job instead of bidding?
meaning that whether I am paid member or not, I can bid in any job offer and my profile is available, though late in rank but it is... See more Hi Kevin,
This is a post from a colleague on another forum:
(Good temptation 12:19
Please Ralf and all the colleagues, there is something I can't comprehend very well, though I am not totally new in proz.com but I want someone to illustrate this issue for me.
Is there any way in proz.com to get a job instead of bidding?
meaning that whether I am paid member or not, I can bid in any job offer and my profile is available, though late in rank but it is still available
I mean, why all this trust that I will be satisfied after being platinium member? I think something is missing and I don't understand it, can anyone tell me the merits of being platinum member?
I know that when I upgrade I will get higher rank in proz.com in my pair of language, but what else?
sorry it seems a stupid question but I am really not sure of the usefulness of being a paid member.),
As you see Kevin, if you waive every feature you have then there is no reason for anybody to join proz.com membership, and it would be silly (sorry for this word) for anyone to pay for membership cause they already can get everything from this site without paying a little fee to join to it,
I understand the meaning behind proz.com membership and the value it gives, but after all it still a business market and to keep this site up then it needs fund,
At least this site is unlike wikipedia, as wikipedia keeps asking for donation to be able to stay up,
But on proz.com, you give and get, that's a goal by its self,
So I believe if (Rod) is getting the benefits of this site, then he doesn't need to put a condition to be able to post freely in order to join proz.com, as he can simply join proz.com membership (if he is willing to) and remove all the strictions,
I hope I wasn't offensive, and I am sorry if I was,
Thank you very much,
Best regards,
Salam Alrawi ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Suécia
Local time: 01:07
Membro (2000)
alemão para sueco
+ ...
In memoriam | Why not pay for something that is good? | Dec 1, 2008 |
May I offer my testimonial to what is good with ProZ.com:
"Since I signed up in 1999 the world for me as a freelancer has transformed. There is a 'before' and 'after ProZ.com' I have thoroughly enjoyed my membership (Dec 2000) for all it offers: . Job offers (only slowly appearing during my first years - Swedish is a niche language), . Knowledge sharing (KudoZ, articles, forum postings), . Views sharing (forums), . Social contacts (forums, powwows, conferences) . Fun (forums and mee... See more May I offer my testimonial to what is good with ProZ.com:
"Since I signed up in 1999 the world for me as a freelancer has transformed. There is a 'before' and 'after ProZ.com' I have thoroughly enjoyed my membership (Dec 2000) for all it offers: . Job offers (only slowly appearing during my first years - Swedish is a niche language), . Knowledge sharing (KudoZ, articles, forum postings), . Views sharing (forums), . Social contacts (forums, powwows, conferences) . Fun (forums and meetings) .Practical help (recommending lodging for my daughter in New York and our stay in London), . Buying and selling opportunities of lexica, books and programs ('Exchange') . Expert advice on computer problems and programs (forums) . Exposure: You can be found. You are someone, your efforts can be appreciated by others (particularly outsourcers ) (directory, Connect and KudoZ) . You can feel 'nest warmth' like in a family or in a club . You increase your outlook. You get to know how people from other countries and cultures think. Using the ProZ.com message function and the eMail link or Skype, you can get instant contact with colleagues across the globe for in-depth individual discussions on all subjects. I have indeed grown as a professional and as an individual by embracing all the above ProZ.com advantages. EUR 80/USD 120/year (less for renewals) is a bargain price for what you get! Mats Wiman Stubborn, individual, liberal Swedish moderator
Mats Wiman Member since Dec '00"
Leaving the jobs that I've got aside, I would be very prepared to pay $100 for all the goodies I get.
Mats
[Edited at 2008-12-01 15:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Bin Tiede wrote:
Don't you think it a bit asocial to post such a topic on a forum, which is largely participated by Proz.members?
What would happen to a non-translator, who tells us on the Proz.com forum, how happy he is not to be a translator?
I don't agree with this comment. I believe everybody has the right to express an opinion. These fora are read by members and non-members as well. Everyone is welcome!
[Edited at 2008-12-01 16:57 GMT]
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 00:07
alemão para inglês
+ ...
In memoriam | Agree with Cristina | Dec 1, 2008 |
Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote: Bin Tiede wrote:
Don't you think it a bit asocial to post such a topic on a forum, which is largely participated by Proz.members?
What would happen to a non-translator, who tells us on the Proz.com forum, how happy he is not to be a translator?
I don't agree with this comment. I believe everybody has the right to express an opinion. These fora are read by members and non-members as well. Everyone is welcome! [Edited at 2008-12-01 16:57 GMT]
Bin - this forum is open to all. I think that it has been very successful and may also clear doubts with other users/non-members. It has already led to changes being considered.
Best
Chris
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 00:07
alemão para inglês
+ ...
Salam Al-Rawi wrote:
As you see Kevin, if you waive every feature you have then there is no reason for anybody to join proz.com membership...
So I believe if (Rod) is getting the benefits of this site, then he doesn't need to put a condition to be able to post freely in order to join proz.com, as he can simply join proz.com membership (if he is willing to) and remove all the strictions,
I hope I wasn't offensive, and I am sorry if I was,
There's nothing offensive in your comment at all, but I think we're looking at this from different perspectives. There are many benefits of membership which we have discussed here and elsewhere to the point of exhaustion. I'm not proposing to throw the gates open to give him or anyone else everything for nothing. I am suggesting that we paid members benefit from Rod's contributions and advice and their quick visibility. Plus, if his posts no longer need to be approved manually, that is less of a burden on our moderators, who are volunteers and busy professionals themselves. I think we gain far more if Rod and some others get this access than they do. If I have an urgent Trados problem and the only person who can help me happens to be a non-paying contributor, I will not be happy if her solution shows up in the thread many hours later than it should have!
| | | | Salam Alrawi
Estados Unidos
Local time: 18:07
inglês para árabe
+ ...
| I understand your good intention | Dec 1, 2008 |
Dear Kevin,
In the last few days I have noticed that you are the most helpful person on forums here on proz.com and I am impressed for your wonderful and good intention to help people, I know you are right, I can't say you are not,
But for example: seeing the international rates on proz.com (example my English to Arabic pair rate) is a feature of proz.com membership, for me being 2 years here on proz.com I could never see them or know them and I always worked by guessin... See more Dear Kevin,
In the last few days I have noticed that you are the most helpful person on forums here on proz.com and I am impressed for your wonderful and good intention to help people, I know you are right, I can't say you are not,
But for example: seeing the international rates on proz.com (example my English to Arabic pair rate) is a feature of proz.com membership, for me being 2 years here on proz.com I could never see them or know them and I always worked by guessing rates, I have some proz.com featured members friends that I can find them directly on my yahoo messenger and I have never dared to ask them what they are cause I know they joined proz.com membership and paid for it to be able to see those rates!, and that I don't deserve to know them, but you have posted them on a forum just simply and now non featured members saw them just simply like that, so that gave them another reason of why they don't join proz.com membership, I know you did that for good intentions, I swear I know that you wanted to help, but to be honest it still was a mistake (and may be against rules),
This is part of the differences that are here between non featured members and featured members, as if a non featured member broke the rules or posted or said something that they shouldn't then the reviewers (moderators) would contact him/her and fix it before they publish their post,
But for featured members, the reviewers (moderators) assume that you know the rules and you know what features you have, so they let you post freely, immediately and without reviews!,
Important point is: proz.com forum is also a marketing for your business by its self, for example: after posting my first post here I have got about 8 hits more on my CV!, so you having everything simply done for you and proz.com works to make everything easy for you as a featured member is another unique feature of joining proz.com membership, and I am sure you are happy about it,
I know it could be a pain for moderators to review every post, but I am still sure they wouldn't do it if they didn't get some benefits (may be discount or may be being a moderator is getting them even more clients or ...etc.),
But for you as a featured member, they consider you part of the featured society and they assume you know everything about it so no one review your posts,
I hope I made my point,
Thank you very much,
Best regards,
Salam Alrawi ▲ Collapse
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| A good point, but by extension... | Dec 1, 2008 |
Kevin Lossner wrote:
I am suggesting that we paid members benefit from Rod's contributions and advice and their quick visibility. .... If I have an urgent Trados problem and the only person who can help me happens to be a non-paying contributor, I will not be happy if her solution shows up in the thread many hours later than it should have!
... can the same not apply to an extent to job posters?
It is not inconceivable that the ideal "applicant" (or whatever word is used) for a particular job might be a non-member, blocked from responding for 24 hours. By which time the job may have been allocated to a paying, sub-optimum freelancer.
After all, in any situation where there is a restriction on someone making a contribution of any kind, there is always the corollary of indiscriminately depriving the entire community of the benefit of that contribution.
That said, I agree with much of what has been said here in terms of the negative consequences of delayed appearance of posts, even if the policy has undoubtedly been 100% effective in its aim. One does wonder whether, several years later, the same threat really exists (have spamming techniques not moved on since 2002?) and whether therefore the same approach is really necessary?
(e.g. a "delete spam" button available e.g. to those who regularly prowl the forums, with safeguards e.g. abuse of said button leading to horrors unimagined in the evil mind of Beelzebub himself, or e.g.2 a post needing to have the "delete spam" button hit twice by two different people before it is deleted.)
| | | | | Why I am NOT a Proz member | Dec 6, 2008 |
The question boils down to who benefits from Proz.
In English Chinese, most pieces of work are technical (engineering), financial, commercial, or scientific especially medical and biological. Ideally, all these should be done by those who worked in the fields.
My impression of Proz is that same few people keep asking questions at the same level again and again. "At the same level" because the terms they ask certainly vary, but the level remains the same because they ... See more The question boils down to who benefits from Proz.
In English Chinese, most pieces of work are technical (engineering), financial, commercial, or scientific especially medical and biological. Ideally, all these should be done by those who worked in the fields.
My impression of Proz is that same few people keep asking questions at the same level again and again. "At the same level" because the terms they ask certainly vary, but the level remains the same because they do not have the right background for the work and they can hardly advance their knowledge in specific fields systematically.
Those who have already taken up a chunk of the market share continue to unfold their blanket to cover A-Z from astronomy to zoology by tapping into the free resources of the trained people, further widening their gap with junior translators. True, they do pay the membership due. But remember, they never paid undergraduate tuition in chemical or mechanical engineering AND they never paid the student loan like those who majored in the fields likely did. Proz is a place for some to telescope the time (or tuition). Period. ▲ Collapse
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