Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
Deutschtum
English translation:
German culture
Added to glossary by
Chris Rowson (X)
May 17, 2006 07:14
17 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Chris Rowson (X)
Deutschtum
German to English
Art/Literary
Music
"Neben Franz Schubert, Johannes Brahms, Richard Wagner und dem einheimischen Karl Mayrberger setzte sich die „Preßburger Liedertafel“ speziell für die Werke Franz Liszts ein, dessen vielschichtige Persönlichkeit ungarischen Patriotismus, Deutschtum und Internationalität vereinte."
This is from a brief item about German choral music in Pressburg in the mid-19th century. I have a rough idea about what is happening there politically, and about Franz/Ferenc Liszt, I just have no idea how to translate "Deutschtum". All contributions gratefully received.
This is from a brief item about German choral music in Pressburg in the mid-19th century. I have a rough idea about what is happening there politically, and about Franz/Ferenc Liszt, I just have no idea how to translate "Deutschtum". All contributions gratefully received.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +2 | identification with German culture |
Henry Schroeder
|
| 2 +8 | Germanness |
Alan Johnson
|
| 3 | Germaness |
BrigitteHilgner
|
| 3 | Germanism |
Steffen Walter
|
| 3 | Germanity |
Lori Dendy-Molz
|
Proposed translations
+2
24 mins
Henry Schroeder
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
20 years of experience, certified, ATA
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: German to English, Russian to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
36
Selected
identification with German culture
I'm going to go out on a rather shaky limb here, but I really don't find the word "Germanness" or "Germanism" particularly appealing.
...united Hungarian patriotism, his identification with German culture and the international community.
Another option, which is perhaps safer, is "identification with Germany." But for whatever reason I don't like it as much.
Ultimately we have an artist here, so it's unlikely that he identified with German aggression, for example, especially if he was a Hungarian patriot, so with that in mind it seems plausible that what is meant here by Deutschtum is in fact primarily its culture.
...united Hungarian patriotism, his identification with German culture and the international community.
Another option, which is perhaps safer, is "identification with Germany." But for whatever reason I don't like it as much.
Ultimately we have an artist here, so it's unlikely that he identified with German aggression, for example, especially if he was a Hungarian patriot, so with that in mind it seems plausible that what is meant here by Deutschtum is in fact primarily its culture.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Frosty
: Could be, but that doesn`t mean this is not the most appropriate translation!
2 hrs
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The general consensus however does not seem to be with us.
|
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| agree |
Ian M-H (X)
2 days 2 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I really don´t feel happy with the “German-” words, they don´t seem like real words to me, so I was happy to use Henry´s suggestion: “ … united Hungarian patriotism, German culture and internationalism.”"
5 mins
BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Austria
Native in German
Austria
b2b/economics/marketing/market research/
Native in: German
Works in: German to English, French to German, English to German
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Germaness
My spontaneous idea - supported by Pons/Collins Großwörter- buch
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Steffen Walter
: German*n*ess
6 mins
|
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Thank you Steffen! You are perfectly right - one of my infamous typos. :-)
|
+8
8 mins
Germanness
Is how I would probably interpret this. I see it as being similar to his "ungarischen Patriotismus". He was both a Hungarian and a German patriot. But this is mere guesswork as I know nothing about classical musicians.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
David Moore (X)
3 mins
|
| agree |
Steffen Walter
: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E4D7153DF...
5 mins
|
| agree |
Matthias Quaschning-Kirsch
11 mins
|
| agree |
Alison Jenner
45 mins
|
| agree |
Francis Lee (X)
: Liszt was a classic binational product of Austria-Hungary - plus his daughter married Wagner; "Germanness" is fine IMO
1 hr
|
| agree |
Bianca Jacobsohn
: FYI far more hits on googlefight for Germanness than Germanity. Just for a bit of fun...
1 hr
|
| agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Maureen Millington-Brodie
8 hrs
|
11 mins
Steffen Walter
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Germany
Top-Notch Service | Direct Clients Only
Native in: German (Variant: Germany)
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
15
Germanism
See examples:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Summaries/V75I4P57-1.htm
http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/4234/
(ironically enough, these comments relate to Richard Wagner not Franz Liszt)
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Summaries/V75I4P57-1.htm
http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/4234/
(ironically enough, these comments relate to Richard Wagner not Franz Liszt)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
David Moore (X)
: It's just BECAUSE Wagner was German that my gut tells me this not the correct way to express the "Deutschtum" concept as displayed by the foreigner, Liszt.
3 mins
|
29 mins
Lori Dendy-Molz
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
Experienced journalist and marketing pro
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
Germanity
...another option
I will argue that Nietzsche's understanding of Germanity is more ... Zarathustra's Germanity is of paramount importance to determining the cultural ...
muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_nietzsche_studies/v027/27.1westfall.html
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Note added at 32 mins (2006-05-17 07:46:18 GMT)
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a few refs in context:
(Josef Danhauser, Liszt am Flugel, 1840, Nationalgalerie Berlin.) ... As we'll see, the American course stands as an expression of Germanity against the ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicology/germanchaps2-4/almachap2a.htm - 337k - Cached - Similar pages
almacdnarr
... giving a kind of symmetry of ritual to the LP's concept, and a nice slice of Germanity. ... and propagated through Chopin and especially Liszt. ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicosophy/almacdnarr.htm - 513k - Cached - Similar pages
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Richard Wagner, by John F. Runciman ...
As yet I have said nothing about his acquaintance with Liszt. ... 1844--in its assertion of the Germanity of Weber and Weber's music; and his deep joy that ...
www.gutenberg.org/files/16431/16431.txt
I will argue that Nietzsche's understanding of Germanity is more ... Zarathustra's Germanity is of paramount importance to determining the cultural ...
muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_nietzsche_studies/v027/27.1westfall.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2006-05-17 07:46:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
a few refs in context:
(Josef Danhauser, Liszt am Flugel, 1840, Nationalgalerie Berlin.) ... As we'll see, the American course stands as an expression of Germanity against the ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicology/germanchaps2-4/almachap2a.htm - 337k - Cached - Similar pages
almacdnarr
... giving a kind of symmetry of ritual to the LP's concept, and a nice slice of Germanity. ... and propagated through Chopin and especially Liszt. ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicosophy/almacdnarr.htm - 513k - Cached - Similar pages
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Richard Wagner, by John F. Runciman ...
As yet I have said nothing about his acquaintance with Liszt. ... 1844--in its assertion of the Germanity of Weber and Weber's music; and his deep joy that ...
www.gutenberg.org/files/16431/16431.txt
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Ian M-H (X)
: I'm not convinced that this is more than a made-up word, which may work in some contexts but is probably best avoided
2 days 2 hrs
|
Discussion