Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

angeblich

English translation:

claimed and a variety of other meanings acc to context

Added to glossary by Susan Welsh
Apr 21, 2013 14:42
11 yrs ago
German term

angeblich

German to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
My question is on the connotation of this word (I know the dictionary definitions, from Duden and from DE-EN dictionaries).

In English, allegedly, supposedly, reputedly, and reportedly all convey subtle differences as to whether the speaker thinks what is being described is unsubstantiated, pure hokum, or possibly true but we just don't know.

My German text is from 1927, a physician examining Theresa Neumann, a woman who is a mystic, has visions, has "stigmata," performs miracles. He is describing her prehistory, as described by her family members. He touts himself as being objective, only interested in science, not theology. But he is also rather more inclined to think she is a "hysteric"--ie that her claims are not true.

Some examples:
Doch kann ich nicht verschweigen, daß uns brieflich von einer die Familie Neumann **angeblich** gut kennenden Seite mitgeteilt wurde, daß mancherlei psychopathische Abwegigkeiten in der weiteren und näheren Verwandtschaft vorgekommen seien.

Als ich ihr die Hand gab, zuckte sie leicht zusammen, da die Wundmale dabei **angeblich** schmerzten.

Phantastisch war sie **angeblich** nicht.

Die Geschichte der „kleinen Therese vom Kind Jesu" habe sie bald sehr lieb gewonnen, **angeblich** wegen des einfach kindlichen, bescheidenen und frommen Wesens, das der kleinen Therese eignete und das ihr immer als Ideal vorschwebte.

There are lots more. So my question is whether to give this a relatively neutral coloration (reputed to be, etc.) or a more ironic one (supposedly, etc.)

Thanks!
Susan
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 claimed
3 +1 ostensibly
3 +1 reportedly

Discussion

Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 21, 2013:
whose views (w/ reference to various answers) 1. doctor is describing what someone else told him in a letter about her and her family
2. doctor describes his own first meeting with her
3. based on what family members have said about her
4. based on what family members have said about her
Bernhard Sulzer Apr 21, 2013:
@Susan Thank you.
784512 (X) Apr 21, 2013:
with Ramey And allegedly is also used in normal speech, if you are quoting someone. Purportedly less so but it's by no means legalese. I'd steer clear of some of the other translations of angeblich for legal texts, though.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 21, 2013:
@Bernard The "ich" is the doctor. He is saying that she drew back as if in pain (because of the wound in the palm of her hand, the Stigma). It seems to me that he is casting doubt on whether the pain is real. He doesn't think she is a faker, but rather a "hysteric."
Bernhard Sulzer Apr 21, 2013:
@asker Susan, is the doctor saying the following, based on his own experience when meeting her, or who is "ich" here: "Als ich ihr die Hand gab, zuckte sie leicht zusammen, da die Wundmale dabei **angeblich** schmerzten." If it's the doctor, then the "angeblich" is her claim.
writeaway Apr 21, 2013:
@Ramey I really have nothing more to say/add here and I bow to your angeblich superior knowledge
Ramey Rieger (X) Apr 21, 2013:
@writeaway allegedly is by no means exclusive to legalese, neither is purportedly.
the man is "allegedly" writing a scientific report, but the meaning of "angeblich" is obviously variable in the context.
Lirka Apr 21, 2013:
with Ramey different words do the trick :)
Erik Freitag Apr 21, 2013:
With Ramey and Bernhard I'm completely with Ramey and Bernhard here. "Angeblich" does convey scepticism, but within a relatively wide range.

I can't see any way how "probably" or "apparently" should cover the same meaning, though.
Bernhard Sulzer Apr 21, 2013:
various meanings I would definitely not use the same word for each of these occurrences of "angeblich" but rather follow Ramey's suggestion to find the most appropriate English word/phrase. The first one definitely means supposedly in the sense of reportedly. hearsay ... and the fourth is again something the person claims to have been convinced of - if she herself claimed it (as in example # 2) - or "supposedly in the sense of "purportedly/as is believed (assumed)" if this was revealed to/told by others.
writeaway Apr 21, 2013:
@Ramey allegedly, purportedly are used in legalese and basically relate to crimes of some sort
probably doesn't mean the same thing at all.
Ramey Rieger (X) Apr 21, 2013:
Why one word? In the first case I would opt for allegedly.
In the second case, I'd use an adjective "she claimed that the scar/woulds hurt"
3. She was purportedly......
4. probably

The colorings are all "iffy", but I would differentiate according to context.
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 21, 2013:
apparently is certainly more neutral, and it's a good choice -- if that is indeed what is meant!
writeaway Apr 21, 2013:
Apparently? How about apparently? That is more neutral, oder?
writeaway Apr 21, 2013:
there all convey skepticism imo angeblich conveys skepticism. imo, reputedly doesn't really fit in some of the contexts you've shown and is it really less strong/more neutral???
Susan Welsh (asker) Apr 21, 2013:
@writeaway "Supposedly" conveys strong skepticism, and I don't know whether that is intended, or whether that is what a German native speaker infers from "angeblich." Whereas something like "reputedly" is much more neutral. That's why I asked the question.
writeaway Apr 21, 2013:
what's wrong with supposedly?? or theoretically or other synonyms???

Proposed translations

+2
3 hrs
Selected

claimed

1. that someone who claimed to know
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : yes, this is the register.
1 hr
agree Andrea Weis (X)
1 hr
neutral Bernhard Sulzer : I don't get the impression #3 + possibly #4 are something she claimed but part of the doctor's assessment based on the prehistory, as described by her family members ( see asker's context in question box).
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Once again, I find helpful contributions made by many, and thank you all. What I take away from this is that "angeblich" does not have a particularly negative connotation or a particularly neutral degree of skepticism--it can be either-- so the English word (perhaps there are many more English words for this) has to be chosen according to how one understands the text. That's a little tough in this case (where the doctor is skeptical but trying not to sound too skeptical)."
+1
2 hrs

ostensibly

For some of the occurrences, "apparently" or "supposedly" might fit others.
Note from asker:
@Michael: "slight ironic detachment" -- I think that is indeed what's needed, since the doctor presumably does not want to sound biased against what the patient is telling him, yet he is not writing for her, but for a professional audience of other doctors and the public.
Peer comment(s):

agree Michael Martin, MA : "ostensibly because" would hit the right tone of slight ironic detachment not found in the other solutions..
52 mins
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

reportedly

I'd consider "reportedly" since it is part of a report that's based on observations made by people who knew her. (connotative meaning)

Better yet, I'd recast the sentence. It does not need to be an adverb.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Bernhard Sulzer : not all of it is reportedly - look at #2 + poss. #4, it's what she herself claimed. For the rest, I find "reportedly" too distant, too uninformed. The doctor is basing his opinion on information gathered from her immediate family, not believing it.
11 mins
agree Anne Schulz : If the physician claims to be objective (and must be objective by way of his profession), he will use a neutral term, even if he does not always mean it. Moreover, phrases like "pt reports [pain on hand shake, etc.]" are common medicalese.
11 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Allegedly, purportedly

The physician is talking about what individuals are saying about themselves, not about what others are saying about them. Allegedly and purportedly don't fit.

Allegedly - If someone allegedly does something, another person says that they have done it, even though this has not been proved http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/allege...

Purported said by some people to be real or true, but not proved to be real or true
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/purpor...

Supposedly - as some people believe or say, although you may not agree with this

1. that someone who …. knew the Neumann family well reported that …
2. when I gave her my hand she flinched slightly because the wound …. hurt her
3. …. she was not Phantastisch
4. She quickly became very fond of the story about little Jesus, …. because of the simple, childish …


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-04-21 16:36:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Different terms may be needed, but not allegedly or purportedly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-04-21 18:13:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

claimed
1. that someone who claimed to know
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
Note from asker:
Thanks Kim, "claimed" works well in those spots.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree writeaway : yes sir. a different register is needed for this particular context. Am sure that as native English speaker, Susan is aware of what English fits and what doesn't.
7 mins
neutral Bernhard Sulzer : I don't get the impression #3 + possibly #4 something she claimed but part of the doctor's assessment based on the prehistory, as described by her family members ( see asker's context in question box). /It's not the word, just who claims what in 1,2,3,4
4 hrs
It's both. /So what's your problem with "claim"?
Something went wrong...
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