Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
angeblich
English translation:
claimed and a variety of other meanings acc to context
Added to glossary by
Susan Welsh
Apr 21, 2013 14:42
11 yrs ago
German term
angeblich
German to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
My question is on the connotation of this word (I know the dictionary definitions, from Duden and from DE-EN dictionaries).
In English, allegedly, supposedly, reputedly, and reportedly all convey subtle differences as to whether the speaker thinks what is being described is unsubstantiated, pure hokum, or possibly true but we just don't know.
My German text is from 1927, a physician examining Theresa Neumann, a woman who is a mystic, has visions, has "stigmata," performs miracles. He is describing her prehistory, as described by her family members. He touts himself as being objective, only interested in science, not theology. But he is also rather more inclined to think she is a "hysteric"--ie that her claims are not true.
Some examples:
Doch kann ich nicht verschweigen, daß uns brieflich von einer die Familie Neumann **angeblich** gut kennenden Seite mitgeteilt wurde, daß mancherlei psychopathische Abwegigkeiten in der weiteren und näheren Verwandtschaft vorgekommen seien.
Als ich ihr die Hand gab, zuckte sie leicht zusammen, da die Wundmale dabei **angeblich** schmerzten.
Phantastisch war sie **angeblich** nicht.
Die Geschichte der „kleinen Therese vom Kind Jesu" habe sie bald sehr lieb gewonnen, **angeblich** wegen des einfach kindlichen, bescheidenen und frommen Wesens, das der kleinen Therese eignete und das ihr immer als Ideal vorschwebte.
There are lots more. So my question is whether to give this a relatively neutral coloration (reputed to be, etc.) or a more ironic one (supposedly, etc.)
Thanks!
Susan
In English, allegedly, supposedly, reputedly, and reportedly all convey subtle differences as to whether the speaker thinks what is being described is unsubstantiated, pure hokum, or possibly true but we just don't know.
My German text is from 1927, a physician examining Theresa Neumann, a woman who is a mystic, has visions, has "stigmata," performs miracles. He is describing her prehistory, as described by her family members. He touts himself as being objective, only interested in science, not theology. But he is also rather more inclined to think she is a "hysteric"--ie that her claims are not true.
Some examples:
Doch kann ich nicht verschweigen, daß uns brieflich von einer die Familie Neumann **angeblich** gut kennenden Seite mitgeteilt wurde, daß mancherlei psychopathische Abwegigkeiten in der weiteren und näheren Verwandtschaft vorgekommen seien.
Als ich ihr die Hand gab, zuckte sie leicht zusammen, da die Wundmale dabei **angeblich** schmerzten.
Phantastisch war sie **angeblich** nicht.
Die Geschichte der „kleinen Therese vom Kind Jesu" habe sie bald sehr lieb gewonnen, **angeblich** wegen des einfach kindlichen, bescheidenen und frommen Wesens, das der kleinen Therese eignete und das ihr immer als Ideal vorschwebte.
There are lots more. So my question is whether to give this a relatively neutral coloration (reputed to be, etc.) or a more ironic one (supposedly, etc.)
Thanks!
Susan
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | claimed | Kim Metzger |
3 +1 | ostensibly | Horst Huber (X) |
3 +1 | reportedly | Andrea Weis (X) |
References
Allegedly, purportedly | Kim Metzger |
Proposed translations
+2
3 hrs
Selected
claimed
1. that someone who claimed to know
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
Peer comment(s):
agree |
writeaway
: yes, this is the register.
1 hr
|
agree |
Andrea Weis (X)
1 hr
|
neutral |
Bernhard Sulzer
: I don't get the impression #3 + possibly #4 are something she claimed but part of the doctor's assessment based on the prehistory, as described by her family members ( see asker's context in question box).
2 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Once again, I find helpful contributions made by many, and thank you all. What I take away from this is that "angeblich" does not have a particularly negative connotation or a particularly neutral degree of skepticism--it can be either-- so the English word (perhaps there are many more English words for this) has to be chosen according to how one understands the text. That's a little tough in this case (where the doctor is skeptical but trying not to sound too skeptical)."
+1
2 hrs
ostensibly
For some of the occurrences, "apparently" or "supposedly" might fit others.
Note from asker:
@Michael: "slight ironic detachment" -- I think that is indeed what's needed, since the doctor presumably does not want to sound biased against what the patient is telling him, yet he is not writing for her, but for a professional audience of other doctors and the public. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Michael Martin, MA
: "ostensibly because" would hit the right tone of slight ironic detachment not found in the other solutions..
52 mins
|
Thank you!
|
+1
5 hrs
reportedly
I'd consider "reportedly" since it is part of a report that's based on observations made by people who knew her. (connotative meaning)
Better yet, I'd recast the sentence. It does not need to be an adverb.
Better yet, I'd recast the sentence. It does not need to be an adverb.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Bernhard Sulzer
: not all of it is reportedly - look at #2 + poss. #4, it's what she herself claimed. For the rest, I find "reportedly" too distant, too uninformed. The doctor is basing his opinion on information gathered from her immediate family, not believing it.
11 mins
|
agree |
Anne Schulz
: If the physician claims to be objective (and must be objective by way of his profession), he will use a neutral term, even if he does not always mean it. Moreover, phrases like "pt reports [pain on hand shake, etc.]" are common medicalese.
11 hrs
|
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference:
Allegedly, purportedly
The physician is talking about what individuals are saying about themselves, not about what others are saying about them. Allegedly and purportedly don't fit.
Allegedly - If someone allegedly does something, another person says that they have done it, even though this has not been proved http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/allege...
Purported said by some people to be real or true, but not proved to be real or true
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/purpor...
Supposedly - as some people believe or say, although you may not agree with this
1. that someone who …. knew the Neumann family well reported that …
2. when I gave her my hand she flinched slightly because the wound …. hurt her
3. …. she was not Phantastisch
4. She quickly became very fond of the story about little Jesus, …. because of the simple, childish …
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-04-21 16:36:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Different terms may be needed, but not allegedly or purportedly.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-04-21 18:13:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
claimed
1. that someone who claimed to know
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
Allegedly - If someone allegedly does something, another person says that they have done it, even though this has not been proved http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/allege...
Purported said by some people to be real or true, but not proved to be real or true
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/purpor...
Supposedly - as some people believe or say, although you may not agree with this
1. that someone who …. knew the Neumann family well reported that …
2. when I gave her my hand she flinched slightly because the wound …. hurt her
3. …. she was not Phantastisch
4. She quickly became very fond of the story about little Jesus, …. because of the simple, childish …
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-04-21 16:36:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Different terms may be needed, but not allegedly or purportedly.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-04-21 18:13:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
claimed
1. that someone who claimed to know
2. she claimed that
3. she claimed she was not
4. supposedly
Note from asker:
Thanks Kim, "claimed" works well in those spots. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
writeaway
: yes sir. a different register is needed for this particular context. Am sure that as native English speaker, Susan is aware of what English fits and what doesn't.
7 mins
|
neutral |
Bernhard Sulzer
: I don't get the impression #3 + possibly #4 something she claimed but part of the doctor's assessment based on the prehistory, as described by her family members ( see asker's context in question box). /It's not the word, just who claims what in 1,2,3,4
4 hrs
|
It's both. /So what's your problem with "claim"?
|
Discussion
2. doctor describes his own first meeting with her
3. based on what family members have said about her
4. based on what family members have said about her
the man is "allegedly" writing a scientific report, but the meaning of "angeblich" is obviously variable in the context.
I can't see any way how "probably" or "apparently" should cover the same meaning, though.
probably doesn't mean the same thing at all.
In the second case, I'd use an adjective "she claimed that the scar/woulds hurt"
3. She was purportedly......
4. probably
The colorings are all "iffy", but I would differentiate according to context.