Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau
English translation:
fateful/prophetic warrior maidens
Added to glossary by
Veronika McLaren
Nov 3, 2008 12:06
15 yrs ago
German term
schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau
German to English
Art/Literary
Folklore
This is from the bibliographical information for a collection of Austrian fairytales. I can find various versions of this story but I'm not sure what to make of this phrase:
"Das in ähnlichen Varianten in ganz Österreich bekannte Märchen bezieht sich auf eine nordgermanische Überlieferung: Die **schicksalskundigen Kampfjungfrauen** Fenja und Menja setzen die Mühle Grotti in Gang, die zunächst Glück und Wohlstand mahlt, schliefllich aber durch ungeheure Mengen Salz die Schiffe zum Sinken bringt."
"Das in ähnlichen Varianten in ganz Österreich bekannte Märchen bezieht sich auf eine nordgermanische Überlieferung: Die **schicksalskundigen Kampfjungfrauen** Fenja und Menja setzen die Mühle Grotti in Gang, die zunächst Glück und Wohlstand mahlt, schliefllich aber durch ungeheure Mengen Salz die Schiffe zum Sinken bringt."
Proposed translations
(English)
References
Poetic Edda: Grottesöngr | Rebecca Garber |
Change log
Nov 3, 2008 16:47: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau" to "schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau"
Nov 6, 2008 05:39: Veronika McLaren Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
2 hrs
German term (edited):
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
Selected
fateful/prophetic warrior maidens
This interpretation seems possible as well. See the wikipedia synopsis of the Norse poem.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
interpr8er
: prophetic warrior maidens: beautiful!
3 hrs
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Thank you very much, C.H.!
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agree |
Helen Shiner
: I also like this one - prophetic - as a solution
2 days 3 hrs
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Thanks, Helen!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This works best for me, but thanks all!"
56 mins
German term (edited):
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
battle maiden acquainted with misfortune
"Battle maiden" is pretty straightforward. Schicksalskundig generally refers to someone who has had a tough life/past and knows how hard life/fate can be; so I would suggest something like "acquainted with misfortune."
("Adversity" could also work, but "fortune" has a more direct connection to the fate/destiny understanding of "Schicksal.")
("Adversity" could also work, but "fortune" has a more direct connection to the fate/destiny understanding of "Schicksal.")
+1
1 hr
German term (edited):
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
prophetic virago
My take.
+1
1 hr
German term (edited):
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
oracular valkyrie
Another alternative
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Helen Shiner
: Another good solution, though I wonder whether valkyrie is not a bit specific, which the German isn't.
2 days 5 hrs
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+2
1 hr
foreknowing (mighty) maiden
Now they have come to the kings’ castle
The foreknowing pair, Fenja and Menja.
The mighty maidens were held as slaves,
By Frode, the son of Fridleif.
The foreknowing pair, Fenja and Menja.
The mighty maidens were held as slaves,
By Frode, the son of Fridleif.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: excellent website: I enjoyed reading the original Swedish, as much as my rather rusty knowledge allowed me; I love this language, it is so meodious. My husband did a study on norse mythology, Edda Sturlison (spelling) I wonder whether this is from the sam
59 mins
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Thanks! I really don't know any Swedish, but I like the Nordic myths.
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agree |
interpr8er
: yes, or Veronica's "prophetic warrior maidens" (which - to be perfectly honest - would be my preference as a translation)
6 hrs
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neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Is foreknowing an EN word?
2 days 4 hrs
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Reference comments
2 hrs
Reference:
Poetic Edda: Grottesöngr
The Hollander translation (1999, reprint, most widely cited, but not always most accurate; it's simply available in the least expensive edition, so people are most familiar with it.):
Now then are come to the king's high hall,
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Fróthi, Frithleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.
The Anderson translation offers the following:
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/prose2/031.php
Now are come / To the house of the king / The prescient two,/ Fenja and Menja.
There must the mighty / Maidens toil / For King Frode,/ Fridleif's son.
Evans translation:
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/grotti.htm
Now then are come to the king's high hall
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Frodi, Fridleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.
The sisters are related to the giants, so they are definitely *not* valkyrie, as this generally puts them on opposite sides of any battle. However, they also appear to be initially benevolant, which is unlike the general character of giants in the *Edda*; they only become malevolant when their labor is abused.
Now then are come to the king's high hall,
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Fróthi, Frithleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.
The Anderson translation offers the following:
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/prose2/031.php
Now are come / To the house of the king / The prescient two,/ Fenja and Menja.
There must the mighty / Maidens toil / For King Frode,/ Fridleif's son.
Evans translation:
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/grotti.htm
Now then are come to the king's high hall
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Frodi, Fridleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.
The sisters are related to the giants, so they are definitely *not* valkyrie, as this generally puts them on opposite sides of any battle. However, they also appear to be initially benevolant, which is unlike the general character of giants in the *Edda*; they only become malevolant when their labor is abused.
Reference:
Discussion