Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau

English translation:

fateful/prophetic warrior maidens

Added to glossary by Veronika McLaren
Nov 3, 2008 12:06
15 yrs ago
German term

schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau

German to English Art/Literary Folklore
This is from the bibliographical information for a collection of Austrian fairytales. I can find various versions of this story but I'm not sure what to make of this phrase:

"Das in ähnlichen Varianten in ganz Österreich bekannte Märchen bezieht sich auf eine nordgermanische Überlieferung: Die **schicksalskundigen Kampfjungfrauen** Fenja und Menja setzen die Mühle Grotti in Gang, die zunächst Glück und Wohlstand mahlt, schliefllich aber durch ungeheure Mengen Salz die Schiffe zum Sinken bringt."
Change log

Nov 3, 2008 16:47: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau" to "schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau"

Nov 6, 2008 05:39: Veronika McLaren Created KOG entry

Discussion

Rachel Ward (asker) Nov 3, 2008:
Could some kindly moderator edit the header? Yes, it should be "schließlich" - I thought I'd got all the formatting errors from the pdf.
Ken Cox Nov 3, 2008:
An 'f' escaped from your keyword (you probably don't want 'camp counselor' as a translation)
Trudy Peters Nov 3, 2008:
Should be Kamp*f*jungfrau in the header, like in your text. And schlieflich is probably schließlich.

Proposed translations

+2
2 hrs
German term (edited): schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
Selected

fateful/prophetic warrior maidens

This interpretation seems possible as well. See the wikipedia synopsis of the Norse poem.
Peer comment(s):

agree interpr8er : prophetic warrior maidens: beautiful!
3 hrs
Thank you very much, C.H.!
agree Helen Shiner : I also like this one - prophetic - as a solution
2 days 3 hrs
Thanks, Helen!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This works best for me, but thanks all!"
56 mins
German term (edited): schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau

battle maiden acquainted with misfortune

"Battle maiden" is pretty straightforward. Schicksalskundig generally refers to someone who has had a tough life/past and knows how hard life/fate can be; so I would suggest something like "acquainted with misfortune."

("Adversity" could also work, but "fortune" has a more direct connection to the fate/destiny understanding of "Schicksal.")
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+1
1 hr
German term (edited): schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau

prophetic virago

My take.
Peer comment(s):

agree Helen Shiner : Wow, that's great!
2 days 5 hrs
Thank you, Helen.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr
German term (edited): schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau

oracular valkyrie

Another alternative
Peer comment(s):

agree Helen Shiner : Another good solution, though I wonder whether valkyrie is not a bit specific, which the German isn't.
2 days 5 hrs
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+2
1 hr

foreknowing (mighty) maiden

Now they have come to the kings’ castle
The foreknowing pair, Fenja and Menja.
The mighty maidens were held as slaves,
By Frode, the son of Fridleif.
Peer comment(s):

agree Ingeborg Gowans (X) : excellent website: I enjoyed reading the original Swedish, as much as my rather rusty knowledge allowed me; I love this language, it is so meodious. My husband did a study on norse mythology, Edda Sturlison (spelling) I wonder whether this is from the sam
59 mins
Thanks! I really don't know any Swedish, but I like the Nordic myths.
agree interpr8er : yes, or Veronica's "prophetic warrior maidens" (which - to be perfectly honest - would be my preference as a translation)
6 hrs
neutral Helen Shiner : Is foreknowing an EN word?
2 days 4 hrs
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Poetic Edda: Grottesöngr

The Hollander translation (1999, reprint, most widely cited, but not always most accurate; it's simply available in the least expensive edition, so people are most familiar with it.):
Now then are come to the king's high hall,
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Fróthi, Frithleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.


The Anderson translation offers the following:
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/prose2/031.php
Now are come / To the house of the king / The prescient two,/ Fenja and Menja.
There must the mighty / Maidens toil / For King Frode,/ Fridleif's son.

Evans translation:
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/grotti.htm
Now then are come to the king's high hall
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Frodi, Fridleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.

The sisters are related to the giants, so they are definitely *not* valkyrie, as this generally puts them on opposite sides of any battle. However, they also appear to be initially benevolant, which is unlike the general character of giants in the *Edda*; they only become malevolant when their labor is abused.
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