Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Czech term or phrase:
Český les
English translation:
Český les highlands / hills
Added to glossary by
Igor Liba
Apr 7, 2009 15:25
15 yrs ago
Czech term
Český les
Czech to English
Science
Geography
from text: Severovýchodní část šumavské soustavy tvoří Český les, úzký a dlouhý geomorfologický celek ležící při státní hranici s Německem. Na německém území se nazývá Oberpfalzer Wald.
Here's the thing: two different variations pop out when researching it...and each holds a bit of truth...but I don't want to spoil your fun :). I don't know which to use or if there's another phrase...Geography being a science, one answer should be the right one.
Here's the thing: two different variations pop out when researching it...and each holds a bit of truth...but I don't want to spoil your fun :). I don't know which to use or if there's another phrase...Geography being a science, one answer should be the right one.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +3 | Český les highlands | Igor Liba |
5 +1 | Upper Palatinate Forest | Jana Bedanova |
5 +1 | Bohemian Forest | Misha Smid |
2 | Český les | Maria Chmelarova |
Change log
Apr 18, 2009 06:07: Igor Liba Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
10 mins
Selected
Český les highlands
*
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Note added at 11 mins (2009-04-07 15:36:28 GMT)
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http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Český_les
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Note added at 11 mins (2009-04-07 15:36:28 GMT)
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http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Český_les
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Maria Chmelarova
: Cesky les je les a les nie je highlands, highlands je vysocina -Ceskomoravska, Stredoceska vysocina a pod.
2 hrs
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dakujem, to je velmi „zaujimava“ poznámka - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/71579/Bohemian-For... / highlands - vrchovina, vysočina / ani Cesko Saske Svajciarsko nie je dalsim kantonom Svajciarska a ani Kaspicke more nie je more ale jazero
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agree |
Pavel Blann
: also possible
4 hrs
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ďakujem
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agree |
Michal Zugec
: Český les je pohorie (a celkom pekné) a nie les obecne
16 hrs
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ďakujem
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agree |
petr jaeger
: jj, to je dobra varianta
16 hrs
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ďakujem
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agree |
Jana Bedanova
21 hrs
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ďakujem
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for the extra time, and for everyone's passionate engagement in this question. I ended up choosing this but Hills, because it is more a system of hills than highlands (like Chřiby)."
+1
3 mins
Upper Palatinate Forest
check also "Bohemian Forest" which is actually Šumava
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Note added at 8 mins (2009-04-07 15:33:53 GMT)
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Cesky les (Upper Palatinate Forest in English or Böhmischer Wald in German) is just a part of Šumava (Bohemian Forest in English or Böhmerwald in German)
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Note added at 10 mins (2009-04-07 15:35:54 GMT)
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mmm...right... maybe its not exactly geographically a part of it (thinking about it now they re very close to each other though), but it's definitely two different ranges as far as I can remember from my geography classes :-)
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-04-07 18:20:50 GMT)
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Please read this carefully:
The highest peaks of the range lie along the Czech side, which is known in Czech as Český les (Böhmischer Wald in German) and is northwest of the Bohemian Forest.
Cesky les is northwest of the Bohemian Forest. It IS NOT the Bohemian Forest.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-04-07 18:22:50 GMT)
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If you click on the link in Wikipedia "Bohemian Forest", the VERY FIRST INFORMATION IS: "Not to be confused with Český les"
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Note added at 8 mins (2009-04-07 15:33:53 GMT)
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Cesky les (Upper Palatinate Forest in English or Böhmischer Wald in German) is just a part of Šumava (Bohemian Forest in English or Böhmerwald in German)
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Note added at 10 mins (2009-04-07 15:35:54 GMT)
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mmm...right... maybe its not exactly geographically a part of it (thinking about it now they re very close to each other though), but it's definitely two different ranges as far as I can remember from my geography classes :-)
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-04-07 18:20:50 GMT)
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Please read this carefully:
The highest peaks of the range lie along the Czech side, which is known in Czech as Český les (Böhmischer Wald in German) and is northwest of the Bohemian Forest.
Cesky les is northwest of the Bohemian Forest. It IS NOT the Bohemian Forest.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-04-07 18:22:50 GMT)
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If you click on the link in Wikipedia "Bohemian Forest", the VERY FIRST INFORMATION IS: "Not to be confused with Český les"
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Maria Chmelarova
: pls. find more info http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Palatine_Forest
2 hrs
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EXACTLY!!! Cesky les is the highest peak of the Upper Palatinum range and lies northwest to the Bohemian Forest (which is an English name already used for Šumava!!!)
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agree |
Pavel Blann
: zřejmě je obtížné: 1. důkladně přečíst zadání, 2. řádně prohledat web, 3. pokorně přiznat chybu, když nebylo dodrženo pořadí bodů 1. a 2. :))
4 hrs
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diky Pavle, ja uz myslela, ze ten Bohemian Forest tomu zustane nadobro prisity :-))
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agree |
Igor Liba
: po vasej rozprave musim suhlasit
1 day 21 hrs
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+1
3 mins
Bohemian Forest
The Bohemian Forest is a low mountain range in Central Europe. Geographically, the mountains extend from South Bohemia in the Czech Republic to Austria and Bavaria in Germany.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2009-04-07 20:49:38 GMT)
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The origin of the current name Bohemian Forest goes back to 400 BC. The Boii people spread across Europe between 400 BC and 8 BC. Boii is the Roman name of three ancient Celtic tribes, living in Transalpine Gaul (modern France), Cisalpine Gaul (northern Italy), and Bohemia, Moravia and western Slovakia. The European region of Bohemia owes its name to the Boii. The Romans called it Boiohaemum, Latin for "the home of the Boii". The mountain range has been traditionally identified with Γαβρήτα Ὕλη (Gabreta Forest), mentioned in Ptolemy's Geographia. In the 1st century AD the forest was inhabited by Gallo-Romans as well as by Germanic tribes in its northern part. Then again by the forefathers of the later Czech people, who entered the area in the 6th century AD, while from the 13th century AD until 1945–1946 most of the region was inhabited by Bohemian Germans, many of them woodcutters. The mountains were known just as the Forest during middle ages. The usage of its current Czech name Šumava has been attested in late 15th century Antonio Bonfini's work Rerum unganicarum decades. The origin of the name is not clear. Folk etymology connects it with Czech words šum, šumění, šumět denoting a noise of trees in the wind. The most accepted opinion among linguists derives Šumava from a theorized Proto-Slavic word *šuma = "dense forest", cf. Serbo-Croatian šuma.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2009-04-07 20:49:38 GMT)
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The origin of the current name Bohemian Forest goes back to 400 BC. The Boii people spread across Europe between 400 BC and 8 BC. Boii is the Roman name of three ancient Celtic tribes, living in Transalpine Gaul (modern France), Cisalpine Gaul (northern Italy), and Bohemia, Moravia and western Slovakia. The European region of Bohemia owes its name to the Boii. The Romans called it Boiohaemum, Latin for "the home of the Boii". The mountain range has been traditionally identified with Γαβρήτα Ὕλη (Gabreta Forest), mentioned in Ptolemy's Geographia. In the 1st century AD the forest was inhabited by Gallo-Romans as well as by Germanic tribes in its northern part. Then again by the forefathers of the later Czech people, who entered the area in the 6th century AD, while from the 13th century AD until 1945–1946 most of the region was inhabited by Bohemian Germans, many of them woodcutters. The mountains were known just as the Forest during middle ages. The usage of its current Czech name Šumava has been attested in late 15th century Antonio Bonfini's work Rerum unganicarum decades. The origin of the name is not clear. Folk etymology connects it with Czech words šum, šumění, šumět denoting a noise of trees in the wind. The most accepted opinion among linguists derives Šumava from a theorized Proto-Slavic word *šuma = "dense forest", cf. Serbo-Croatian šuma.
Example sentence:
see above
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Jana Bedanova
: except that both Misha's and Igor's links actually point to the fact that Bohemian Forest is Sumava and Cesky les is a separate range..
18 mins
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agree |
Blanka Salkova
31 mins
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agree |
Zuzana Holcova
1 hr
|
disagree |
Pavel Blann
: sorry but "bohemian forest" is „šumava“
4 hrs
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1 day 16 hrs
Český les
no translation.
After very long exchange of information, missinformation here is why.
Český les in Czech R. is a mountain as Sumava and Novohradske hory. All three of them are in Czech R. and they are part of Sumavska sustava (subprovincia), they belong to Ceska vysocina (provicia).
Besides mountains the highlands as (Podceskohorska pahorkatina, Vserubska pahorkatina, Sumavske podhorie, Novohradske pohorie ) are part of Sumavska sustava (subprovincia).
Český les is a mountain range in lenght of 80 km from NW between Chebska panva and Všerubska vrchovina SE.
Yes, I made a mistake, when I wrote "sumavska sustava" does not exist, because for me it was perfectly clear what was your question. We are talking about geographical names of ... and not geological or geomorphological divisions.
Your question "who is responsible for linguistic dabacle", Germans, Czechs or who knows, is O.K. We will never know. But to do translation from German l. of Czech names to English, that is wrong.
What we will do next time, when somebody will ask us how to translate "Všerubska vrchvina, Brdy, Javorniky and ect. which they do not have English version in wikipedia/Google or ... only German.
My input is for no points.
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Note added at 3 days1 hr (2009-04-10 17:22:10 GMT)
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Scott, you like it or not, I am still here and I will not quit so easy. So, please find more info:
www.zemepis.net/zeme-nemecko
where " vychodni hranci s Českou R. tvori Oberpfäzer Wald - Český les na který navazuje Bohmer Wald - Šumava..." that is geography about Germany but in czech lng.
Or if you wish
www.tisicovky.cz with wonderfull and accurate maps and informations.
If you wish to make any translation, because I am suggesting not to do that, you shoud do as Oberpfälzer Wald - Český les and if you need to transalte Šumava that is Bohmer Wald. The rest of information in wikipedia or some other material is just wrong. Someone start doing a mistake and the rest of people just multiply the wrong information over and over again, and this is why such a "guláš " (gulash) appeared here in our debate.
Forget the text from German point of view, you asked us about Český les originating in Czech text and not in German or English or some other language. Not how Germans are dividing and subdividing their mountains, highlands, lower lands or...but how Czechs call their own geographic units and how they would (if they have to ) translate them.
Please, do not make mistake. I do not like to write this, but now I will. I am a geographer with final thesis in geography (orography), can I make a mistake, sure but I solved the problem.
Thank you for reading this and good luck. M.
After very long exchange of information, missinformation here is why.
Český les in Czech R. is a mountain as Sumava and Novohradske hory. All three of them are in Czech R. and they are part of Sumavska sustava (subprovincia), they belong to Ceska vysocina (provicia).
Besides mountains the highlands as (Podceskohorska pahorkatina, Vserubska pahorkatina, Sumavske podhorie, Novohradske pohorie ) are part of Sumavska sustava (subprovincia).
Český les is a mountain range in lenght of 80 km from NW between Chebska panva and Všerubska vrchovina SE.
Yes, I made a mistake, when I wrote "sumavska sustava" does not exist, because for me it was perfectly clear what was your question. We are talking about geographical names of ... and not geological or geomorphological divisions.
Your question "who is responsible for linguistic dabacle", Germans, Czechs or who knows, is O.K. We will never know. But to do translation from German l. of Czech names to English, that is wrong.
What we will do next time, when somebody will ask us how to translate "Všerubska vrchvina, Brdy, Javorniky and ect. which they do not have English version in wikipedia/Google or ... only German.
My input is for no points.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days1 hr (2009-04-10 17:22:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Scott, you like it or not, I am still here and I will not quit so easy. So, please find more info:
www.zemepis.net/zeme-nemecko
where " vychodni hranci s Českou R. tvori Oberpfäzer Wald - Český les na který navazuje Bohmer Wald - Šumava..." that is geography about Germany but in czech lng.
Or if you wish
www.tisicovky.cz with wonderfull and accurate maps and informations.
If you wish to make any translation, because I am suggesting not to do that, you shoud do as Oberpfälzer Wald - Český les and if you need to transalte Šumava that is Bohmer Wald. The rest of information in wikipedia or some other material is just wrong. Someone start doing a mistake and the rest of people just multiply the wrong information over and over again, and this is why such a "guláš " (gulash) appeared here in our debate.
Forget the text from German point of view, you asked us about Český les originating in Czech text and not in German or English or some other language. Not how Germans are dividing and subdividing their mountains, highlands, lower lands or...but how Czechs call their own geographic units and how they would (if they have to ) translate them.
Please, do not make mistake. I do not like to write this, but now I will. I am a geographer with final thesis in geography (orography), can I make a mistake, sure but I solved the problem.
Thank you for reading this and good luck. M.
Reference comments
5 hrs
Reference:
český les vs. šumava (bohemian forest)
as can be seen on the map below, šumava (bohemian forest) is also a national park, whereas český les is also a PLA (protected landscape area)--two narrow regions to the north-west of šumava
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Note added at 8 hrs (2009-04-07 23:27:57 GMT)
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both regions of „český les“ belong to west bohemia, whereas „šumava“ belongs to south bohemia, pls. see http://www.ecologica.cz/index.php?option=com_content&view=ca...
"šumavská soustava" is a superset of relevant D/CZ regions, pls. see http://encyklopedie.seznam.cz/heslo/504597-sumavska-subprovi...
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Note added at 8 hrs (2009-04-07 23:27:57 GMT)
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both regions of „český les“ belong to west bohemia, whereas „šumava“ belongs to south bohemia, pls. see http://www.ecologica.cz/index.php?option=com_content&view=ca...
"šumavská soustava" is a superset of relevant D/CZ regions, pls. see http://encyklopedie.seznam.cz/heslo/504597-sumavska-subprovi...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
disagree |
Maria Chmelarova
: "below (šumava)-bohemian forest?)" is Germany-Bavorsko. NE the small area of Sumava m. foothils is Blansky les, which is NE of Sumava m.
2 hrs
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„šumavská soustava“ includes „šumava“, „český les“ and other relevant regions, including the german ones. „severovýchodní“ is referenced from the center of „šumavská soustava“, not „šumava“
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agree |
Igor Liba
9 hrs
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vďaka!
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agree |
petr jaeger
: anebo take Böhmischer wald (Böhmerwald), ze? :) Zikmund, lyska rysava, nam to natrel, ale nemci tam stejne bydleli uz od Karla, tak co
12 hrs
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díky. nicméně tímto odkazem poukazuji na odlišnost termínů "šumava/böhmerwald/bohemian forest" a "český les/böhmischer wald" [czech side] / "hornofalcký les/oberpfälzer wald" [german side]
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agree |
Jana Bedanova
16 hrs
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díky!
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Discussion
Douska: Bohemian Forest je jeden geograficky celek, ktery se nesklada ze 2 pohori ale na ceske strane se nazyva Sumava (Bohmer Wald) a na nemecke strane se nazyva Zadni bavorsky les (Bayerische Wald).
Stejne tak Upper Palatine Mountains je jeden geograficky celek (odlisny od Bohemian Forest), ktery se nesklada ze dvou pohori. Je to minipohori (a ne les). Na ceske strane se nazyva Cesky les (Bohmischer Wald) a na nemecke strane se nazyva Hornofalcky les (Oberpfalzer Wald)
Co se tyce Britannicy, to je zajimave, asi vam to hazi jiny text, tak ja ho sem pro jistotu zkopiruji (je to vynatek z hesla Bohemian Forest):
...is sparse. There are some mineral deposits and stone quarries. To the northwest [of Bohemian Forest], the much lower range of the Český les (Oberpfälzerwald Mountains) is separated from the main group (the Šumava and Hinterer Wald) by a depression that extends roughly between the towns of Cham, Furth im Wald, and...
Ze ktereho je jasne, ze Bohemian Forest NENI Cesky les, protoze Cesky les lezi to the northwest!
Dale, co se tyce atlasu s vami plne souhlasim. Presne z toho duvodu jsem zde uvedla ty dva linky - mapy v nich jsou v poradku.
Dale jsem ve svem uplne puvodnim prispveku uvedla, ze
Český les: Upper Palatinate Forest in English
Böhmischer Wald in German
Šumava = Bohemian Forest in English
Böhmerwald in German
Povsimnete si prosim nemeckych nazvu. Ano v nemcine se to rekne takrka stejne.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/423728/Oberpfalzer...
Upper Palatine Forest is geographically a mountain range that lies in Germany and it is indeed Hornofalcky les, except that the little part of it which overreaches to teh Czech Republic is called Cesky les by Czechs.
Which is why I suggested that the issue is whether Scott is talking about geography or let's say cultural geography... because if it's pure geography, ie., if he's speaking about the phenomena of some fauna and flaura in Cesky les - then I would use the Upper Palatine Forest - because there is one and only Upper Palatine Forest no matter how Czechs and Germans split it.
Of course, a cultural point of view would be more complicated...and in that case Český les highlands is not such a bad idea...