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deducida
Jun 10, 2023 20:20
12 mos ago
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Spanish term

sociedad

Spanish to English Bus/Financial Law: Contract(s) mandate
I am looking for an English word for sociedad in this context. As far as I can see, it refers to a single citizen, no company or group of people here. Document from Chile.

Representar al mandante en todos los juicios y gestiones judiciales en que este tenga interés o pueda llegar a tener, ante cualquier tribunal de la República, sea ordinario, especial, arbitral, administrativo o de cualquier naturaleza, así intervenga la sociedad como demandante, demandado o tercero de cualquier especie, pudiendo ejercer toda clase de acciones, sean ellas ordinarias, ejecutivas, especiales de jurisdicción contenciosa o no contenciosa, o de cualquier otra naturaleza.

Deadline Sunday June 11 at 3 p.m.

Thanks in advance!
Proposed translations (English)
5 +1 Company
4 +2 firm (or sole proprietorship)
3 corporation sole (vs. aggregate)

Discussion

larserik (asker) Jun 12, 2023:
@Allegro Trans In my question, I stated "no company or group of people here". "Here" was meant to imply the whole text. That's why it was fairly easy to choose the typo/form-without-necessary-adaption alternative.
pawlik Jun 12, 2023:
@Jennifer Levey
Of course you're right that it could be a mistake, but it just seems possible to me, I can't explain why, meaning "when/if the company..." I'm not a native, and I don't have much experience with Chilean Spanish documents, but just think of something as weird as "traer causa", which has become quite a hit with legal writers and notaries, in Spain at least.
AllegroTrans Jun 12, 2023:
Everyone here "took "sociedad" seriously" and tried to help you, but you did not provide sufficient context and appear to have misunderstood the crucial point: that the "sociedad" would have been more fully described at the start of your document. You chose not to answer the request to look at this, so all three answers were speculation. It's your call of course, but we are still in the dark.
larserik (asker) Jun 11, 2023:
@Asker Very good question. Should have been "one of those who took "sociedad" seriously", as opposed to "one answer that proposed "persona" as a possible typo"
AllegroTrans Jun 11, 2023:
Asker I don't understand what you mean by "I sent the Kudoz to an answer that took "sociedad" seriously".
larserik (asker) Jun 11, 2023:
@Asker What I wrote might look a bit far-fetched. Adrian's contribution was mentioning the possibility of a typo for "persona" - never mind he answered as this suggestion was wrong. - I sent the Kudoz to an answer that took "sociedad" seriously. Twice breaking the rules?
Jennifer Levey Jun 11, 2023:
@Asker From my personal experience of drafting, translating and signing PoAs in the presence of Chilean notaries, I can assure you that said notaries do not draft the PoA - and in most cases don't ever read it! PoAs here can be drafted by anyone. Big companies may have them drawn up by lawers, but many small businesses find a 'model PoA' on the web and adapt the bits they think are most relevant. Many such folk wouldn't realise that sociedad might need to be changed to suit the nature of their own business.
That's how OCR, grammatical and legal errors propagate like viruses - and end up as Kudoz questions!
As AT has said, you need to use whatever term best fits the mandante identified at the top of the PoA.
AllegroTrans Jun 11, 2023:
Asker As we have all been trying to help you, please share with us how you found the "sociedad" to come close to Adrian's suggestion. How exactly is it described the first time it is mentioned in your text?
larserik (asker) Jun 11, 2023:
Sorry for my late answer I was busy fighting against the deadline ... and thanks for all your suggestions. However, I came to the conclusion that the notary must have used an old form and did not change all instances where it was needed. There are several such errors in this text, e.g. plural when referring to a single person. So the first line in Adrian's posting is what comes closest to the solution. Too bad I made you put this lot of energy into a case of bad proofreading.
Jennifer Levey Jun 11, 2023:
@AT It may be a sole proprietorship or a partnership, but we simply don't know at this stage...

As mentioned previously, in Chile a one woman business ('sole proprietorship') is an empresa, not a sociedad, the argument being that any sociedad must be formed by at least two persons.

Hence, in Asker's context, sociedad excludes EIRL's and wholly state-owned businesses such as ENAP, ENEL, and other Empresa Nacional de ....
Jennifer Levey Jun 11, 2023:
@pawlik The mere fact that you've found "así intervenga" in another pdf scanned copy of a very similar text doesn't mean it's correct. More likely, it is just another example of blind 'copy-paste' from the same duff boiler-plate text that's circulating on the web, and that no one has ever bother to proof-read.
AllegroTrans Jun 11, 2023:
@ Phil "Even if it is one person, and there's no evidence of that in the text you've given us, it's still a company".
No Phil, not necessarily. The solution here is to see how this entity is described at the beginning of the document. It could be a sole proprietorship or a partnership, but we simply don't know at this stage
pawlik Jun 11, 2023:
I don't see the problem. It's part of a power of attorney to represent what almost certainly can be described as a company, though as AllegroTrans points out, the Asker should know what kind of enterprise it is. And there's no OCR problem. I've found "así intervenga" in a pdf scanned copy of a very similar text.
philgoddard Jun 10, 2023:
I agree with Jennifer Represent the company.
Even if it is one person, and there's no evidence of that in the text you've given us, it's still a company.
Jennifer Levey Jun 10, 2023:
@Asker Your previous question from the same ST is proof enough that the text has OCR errors.
It is very likely that así intervenga la sociedad como ... should read ... ainsi que representar la sociedad como ..., which is standard Chilean PoA waffle.

If that is the case, then sociedad refers to the mandante, who will be identified elsewhere in the PoA.

Note also that a one-(wo)man company in Chile is an empresa individual, not a sociedad (try Googling 'EIRL Chile').
AllegroTrans Jun 10, 2023:
Asker It's not possible from this extract (clearly from a power of attorney) to discern the precise meaning of "sociedad".
How is this "sociedad" defined in the preamble?

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

Company

El término «firm» es aceptado. No obstante, considero el término «company» siempre será mucho más adaptable y claro. Sí, porque una sociedad siempre será una entidad compuesta de dos o más ya sea personas o entidades. Una firma puede ser ya sea una sociedad, compañía, una persona u entidad.
De igual manera, aquí les dejo mi sugerencia: «company».
De manera atenta,
Maximo Wilhelm.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 día 2 horas (2023-06-11 23:15:13 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

... De igual manera una sociedad es una entidad compuesta por dos o más entidades, ya sean personas o entidades, siendo una compañía... Sociedad = compañía.
¡Saludos! Feliz fin de semana Larserik... Gracias por elegir mi respuesta como la más adecuada para tu interrogante.
De manera atenta,
Maximo F. Wilhelm Muñóz.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard
1 hr
Gracias. ¡Saludos estimado Philgoddard!
neutral AllegroTrans : Nothing in the text tells us what form of entity this "sociedad" is
16 hrs
Gracias por tu comentario... ... De igual manera una sociedad es una entidad compuesta por dos o más entidades, ya sean personas o entidades… Sociedad = compañía. ¡Saludos estimado AllegroTrans!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everybody!"
+2
1 hr

firm (or sole proprietorship)

When referring to a single person (thus, sole proprietorship or firm)
Peer comment(s):
agree Maximo Wilhelm Muñoz : El término «firm» es aceptado. No obstante, considero el término «company» siempre será mucho más adaptable y claro. Saludos estimado Laureano.
14 mins
agree Tomasso : Pues me ocurre que significa la frase mas amplia S.A, https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociedad_anónima muy simialr S. A, Italiano, Frances, me imagino no portugues??
6 hrs
neutral philgoddard : Maybe, but we don't know that it's a partnership (firm) or sole proprietorship.
12 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : Nothing in the text tells us what form of entity this "sociedad" is
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

corporation sole (vs. aggregate)

on the assumption that solciedad isn't a typo for una 'persona' and, as discussed, would need clarification from any properly drafted recital.

A corporation sole could include a 1. (BrE) sole trade/r 2. (AmE) sole proprietor/ship 3. ecclesiastically, a Bishop (!) whose office survives the incumbent's tenure and lifetime.

> 'trading as a firm' iin Eng. litigation means a partnership that, if a limited one or LLP, would fall into the category of a 'corporation aggregate', as would a 'company', 'society', 'club' or 'aasociation'.

For tax purposes and legally, an ordinary or general Anglo-Am. partnership arguably exists as a legal entity, rather than a body corporate and is taxed as a
'motley collection of indviduals'.

As I have mentioned before on ProZ, -> *& Co.* means a partnership and *& Co. Ltd.* would connote a partnership turned into a ltd- co. (US Am: corporation !).

These points had been or better well explained in a (paperback) UK law primer published about 40 years ago and the whereabouts of which I am still searching for.
Example sentence:

A corporation sole is a legal entity consisting of a single ("sole") incorporated office, occupied by a single ("sole") natural person.

Reference:

http://eng.proz.com/?sp=gloss/term&id=1508154

Peer comment(s):
neutral Jennifer Levey : I wouldn't assume, as you are clearly doing, that it refers to a 'one-(wo)man business'. See disc. box for standard CL PoA text.
29 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : Nothing in the text tells us what form of entity this "sociedad" is, and Asker has not responded for a request to simply look at the "appearances" part of the PoA
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
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