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corral (para tortugas caguamas)
escapar de las fauces de esa abominación con forma humana y cabeza de tiburón
Sep 24, 2014 00:16
9 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Spanish term

y a otros la grandeza les queda grande

Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Shakespeare
“algunos nacen grandes, algunos logran grandeza, a algunos la grandeza les es impuesta y a otros la grandeza les queda grande”

No trouble with the "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them" part (I know this is from Twelfth Night and was said by Malvolio). My problem is "y a otros la grandeza les queda grande" (this may be a line for Feste which modifies what Malvolio said earlier). I don't have a copy of the play so I'm having a tough time getting the original version of this last phrase. Any ideas or refs very welcome.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 and others have greatness thrust upon them
3 +4 and for others greatness is too great
4 wear greatness like an ill-fitting suit
3 still others are forced to wear it (/greatness) without ever quite fitting it
3 Thy Fates open their hands
3 and, still others just can't grok greatness.

Discussion

David Hollywood (asker) Sep 25, 2014:
Thanks to all and I finally used "and there are others who just can't hack it" as a variation on neilmac's "whereas etc." as it creates the effect we want to create.
Judith Armele Sep 25, 2014:
Thank you, David! Next time. :)
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
Sorry to be so late with the additional contextual information but I wasn't able to contact my colleage any earlier and I have to say I'm probably going to go with neilmac's "whereas some just can't hack it" but if anyone would like to add any new suggestions, they would be very welcome and I'll wait until tomorrow to make the final choice
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
@Judith: lovely rendering and would normally work but we need something offbeat
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
Thanks for all the input so far and my colleague tells me he found the line as it stands with its 4 components in Spanish. Although I agree that the last bit is not part of the original English penned by the bard and that someone has been playing around, we've decided we like it and will render it with something modern and witty so that's what we're looking for ... nothing too formal or olde Englishy. Keep the suggestions coming and thanks again for your help on this.
Judith Armele Sep 24, 2014:
Perhaps, if you want to keep that last part that was added to the famous quote, you could put it in a way that it is clear that's been added. For example: "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them"... And for others greatness is too great to fathom (as Michael suggested).
Charles Davis Sep 24, 2014:
@David I've found it in this form in a number of Internet sites, so I don't think your colleague invented it; he presumably found it like that online. The whole thing, with four phrases instead of the original three, purports to be a translation of the famous passage from Twelfth Night, but someone gilded the lily by adding this. The effect is quite witty in Spanish. You could either just remove it, since the original is actually complete without it, or use Judith's suggestion, although in English anyone who knows the original (which is extremely well known, of course) will notice that someone's been messing with Shakespeare. Personally I would just leave it out, but it really depends what you're after and whether the idea expressed in the added phrase is important in your context.
Andy Watkinson Sep 24, 2014:

Just to add that this expression is usually employed with a noun.
Su nuevo puesto en la empresa le quedaba/venía grande.
Asumió una responsabilidad que le quedaba grande. etc...

Here the writer's playing with «una grandeza que queda/viene grande».
.
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
and @ Judith: like it and will see what my colleage's thoughts were when penning this bit :)
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
@ Gallagy: thanks for the link and is a great help :)
David Hollywood (asker) Sep 24, 2014:
Thanks for all the suggestions, comments and refs. @ Andy: I'm not translating Shakespeare (working with a colleage on a book project and we'd like to include this). I think it's probably a tag on by my colleage so I'll ask him as this bit was his idea.
Andy Watkinson Sep 24, 2014:
Hi Dave,

Not sure whether whether you're actually translating Shakespeare as such or something related.

If not, "quedar/venir grande" is a fairly regular expression meaning "not able to do justice to"- no estar a la altura de......Sounds like someone's tagged on this familiar expression.

Proposed translations

+1
9 hrs
Selected

and others have greatness thrust upon them

The classic phrase is a quote from Shakespeare's Twelfth Night: "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them"

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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-09-24 10:03:13 GMT)
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Dagnabbit! Just seen Charles' comments in Discussion. I don't feel so smart now...

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-09-24 11:56:40 GMT)
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How about: "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them, whereas some just can't hack it."

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-09-24 11:57:24 GMT)
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(The clash of styles is intentional).

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-09-24 11:58:38 GMT)
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"... whereas/while some just can't handle it/cut the cake/ are overwhelmed by it..."


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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-09-24 11:59:12 GMT)
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An idea of the tone of the rest of the text would help.
Reference:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/326900.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvolio

Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Watkinson : "just can't handle it".
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all and I finally used "and there are others who just can't hack it" as a variation on neilmac's "whereas etc." as it creates the effect we want to create."
+4
36 mins

and for others greatness is too great

Just an idea.

I don't think it's the line of Feste. It seems something added to the quote, something even more modern and sarcastic.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tim Friese : This is 'great' if you will excuse the joke. Also consider 'still others' since 'others' was already used once.
5 mins
Thank you, Tim. I like your suggestion...and jokes are always welcome :)
agree Michael torhan (X) : Admirable job keeping with the theme! I might finish it off with "...too great to fathom."
2 hrs
Excellent! I love your suggestion.
agree Thayenga : Very nice! :)
9 hrs
Thanks!
agree Maria Mastruzzo
10 hrs
Gracias!
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

still others are forced to wear it (/greatness) without ever quite fitting it

Or this: "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them; and then there are others, on whom it just looks awkward."
Based on greatness being too big, ie. an awkward fit / bad fit
Something went wrong...
30 mins

Thy Fates open their hands

I can only imagine it's this line?

If this fall into thy hand, revolve. In my stars I am above thee; but be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. Thy Fates open their hands;

http://www.bartleby.com/70/2325.html

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Note added at 31 mins (2014-09-24 00:47:37 GMT)
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anyway, you have access to play via this link

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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-09-24 09:30:04 GMT)
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Your original question wasn't too clear...so it is something actually tagged on...

Only a brave person messes around with Shakespeare, especially with such a well-known quote:-)

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Note added at 21 hrs (2014-09-24 22:14:13 GMT)
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a suggestion

It would really help to know what comes next??

a few ideas
...some have greatness thrust upon them...

and they collapse/buckle/fall apart/crumple under the weight/gravitas

and still look like simpering idiots

and still look puny and inconsequential
Something went wrong...
1 day 1 hr

and, still others just can't grok greatness.

Since it's now open season! Please tell me I'm not the only one old enough to remember "to grok (something)" from Stranger in a Strange Land?
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok

Something went wrong...
1 day 12 hrs

wear greatness like an ill-fitting suit

Just a suggestion, in light of the discussion.

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Note added at 1 day12 hrs (2014-09-25 12:26:22 GMT)
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I meant to start 'and others..."

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Note added at 1 day12 hrs (2014-09-25 12:50:12 GMT)
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OR for a more punning version:

'and others wear greatness like a baggy greatcoat'
Something went wrong...
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