Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >
Abusive exchange with a translation company
Thread poster: Inez Ulrich
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
Looking forward to future updates Feb 23, 2018

Given the powerhouse status of [name deleted] in the translation world, it is an inestimable service to the translation community to have sounded the alert regarding such clearly dastardly practices. Perhaps hundreds of translators who failed to check the Blue Board might otherwise have been taken in.

I look forward to future updates regarding efforts at debt recovery, legal action, and the continued psychological ramifications of the unfortunate encounter with the disturbed operato
... See more
Given the powerhouse status of [name deleted] in the translation world, it is an inestimable service to the translation community to have sounded the alert regarding such clearly dastardly practices. Perhaps hundreds of translators who failed to check the Blue Board might otherwise have been taken in.

I look forward to future updates regarding efforts at debt recovery, legal action, and the continued psychological ramifications of the unfortunate encounter with the disturbed operator of the floundering translation agency in question.

Perhaps the site can be persuaded to dedicate an entire forum to discussion of this one case. (Okay, just a thought.)

In the meantime, the following dictionary entry might be of some interest:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/secondary-gain
Collapse


 
Nikolaki
Nikolaki  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:50
French to English
And still going strong Feb 23, 2018

The culprit is still very much active at Translators'Cafe.

His (his, not their) latest job offer there starts with :

Translators from french to spanish, deutsch (nl)

Obviously knows his stuff…


[Edited at 2018-02-23 20:14 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-02-23 21:59 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-02-23 21:59 GMT]


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all so much Feb 23, 2018

for your support and valuable advice! Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, since yesterday I barely have a minute to breathe, everybody seems to need translations and proofreading exactly now and that fast, of course (but it's okay, I already had two really relaxing days this week which was a welcome change for my tight back and neck)

I'll take everything you told me into account and decide which way to go. I apprecia
... See more
for your support and valuable advice! Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, since yesterday I barely have a minute to breathe, everybody seems to need translations and proofreading exactly now and that fast, of course (but it's okay, I already had two really relaxing days this week which was a welcome change for my tight back and neck)

I'll take everything you told me into account and decide which way to go. I appreciate your advice really a lot, it will help me tremendously! Thank you!
Collapse


 
gayd (X)
gayd (X)
disagree Feb 23, 2018

Natasha Ziada wrote:

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


Yes, shame on them. To be clear: no-one deserves to be 1) cheated out of payment and 2) treated so abominably for mistakenly trusting someone. Yes, OP should have done her due diligence, but we've all done or neglected things that, in hindsight, we should have done differently. The only one to blame here for their outrageous behaviour, however, is the agency.

Inez, please report the agency to the Naming and Shaming group on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3415770


Any so called professional translator is running a business and should check for whom he/she is working,
and should refuse to work for the bad "agencies". In failing to do so, you're actively undermining the translation market.
If you don't intend to get a living from your activity, just register it as a non profit organization
and rename it The Ines Ulrich Foundation Without Borders (at least, you'll save on your Gewerbesteuer)

[Modifié le 2018-02-23 15:06 GMT]

[Modifié le 2018-02-23 15:11 GMT]


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Aren't you glad... Feb 23, 2018

David GAY wrote:

Natasha Ziada wrote:

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


Yes, shame on them. To be clear: no-one deserves to be 1) cheated out of payment and 2) treated so abominably for mistakenly trusting someone. Yes, OP should have done her due diligence, but we've all done or neglected things that, in hindsight, we should have done differently. The only one to blame here for their outrageous behaviour, however, is the agency.

Inez, please report the agency to the Naming and Shaming group on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3415770


Any so called professional translator is running a business and should check for whom he/she is working,
and should refuse to work for the bad "agencies". In doing so, you're undermining the translation market.
If you don't intend to get a living from your activity, just register it as a non profit organization
and rename it The Ines Ulrich Foundation Without Borders (at least, you'll save on your Gewerbesteuer)

[Modifié le 2018-02-23 15:06 GMT]


Zibow Retailleau
 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
then go down on your knees Feb 23, 2018

and thank the heavens that you are wihtout fail and therefore professional

David GAY wrote:

Natasha Ziada wrote:

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


Yes, shame on them. To be clear: no-one deserves to be 1) cheated out of payment and 2) treated so abominably for mistakenly trusting someone. Yes, OP should have done her due diligence, but we've all done or neglected things that, in hindsight, we should have done differently. The only one to blame here for their outrageous behaviour, however, is the agency.

Inez, please report the agency to the Naming and Shaming group on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3415770


Any so called professional translator is running a business and should check for whom he/she is working,
and should refuse to work for the bad "agencies". In doing so, you're undermining the translation market.
If you don't intend to get a living from your activity, just register it as a non profit organization
and rename it The Ines Ulrich Foundation Without Borders (at least, you'll save on your Gewerbesteuer)

[Modifié le 2018-02-23 15:06 GMT]


Anna Augustin
Daryo
 
Nikolaki
Nikolaki  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:50
French to English
Cruel but fair Feb 23, 2018

@ David and others

Inez clearly messed up on the due diligence and has paid the price. Agreed. End of.

What makes the difference here is A) the stream of sexist invective she received from this non-payer and b) the fact he appears to be able to recall his emails from her email client (though I still can't get my head around that one).

There's probably nothing she can do, other than complain, but those count as aggravating circumstances in my book.


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
... Feb 23, 2018

Nikolaki wrote:

@ David and others

Inez clearly messed up on the due diligence and has paid the price. Agreed. End of.

What makes the difference here is A) the stream of sexist invective she received from this non-payer and b) the fact he appears to be able to recall his emails from her email client (though I still can't get my head around that one).

There's probably nothing she can do, other than complain, but those count as aggravating circumstances in my book.


Nikolaki, I never explicitely said it was him who was able to delete the emails. I said that they disappeared and that it was strange that olny his emails with the insults disappeared. I cannot prove anything so far and the most important thing for me is, that I was able to print out those emails because they still were in my Sent-file together with my answers. So, techincally, anything could have caused this, I simply don't know.

I also won't dicuss any longer if it is my fault that he called me a fucking German asshole and crazy bitch and that I should go to hell etc. Whatever I might have done wrong (in this case missing to check the BB) nothing makes his behaviour excusable, even if some gentlemen here say the opposite. It is just ridiculous to argue that way, but hey, at least they didn't call me asshole. lucky me! *grin*. Okay, 'nough said. Back to my would-be professional work.


Anna Conrad
 
gayd (X)
gayd (X)
collective responsibility Feb 23, 2018

Could you imagine if everybody worked for non payers/bad payers?
The translation market would be completely ruined because this kind
of agency (if you can call it an agency) obviously offers very competitive
prices.


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
... Feb 23, 2018

David GAY wrote:

Could you imagine if everybody worked for non payers/bad payers?
The translation market would be completely ruined because this kind
of agency (if you can call it an agency) obviously offers very competitive
prices.


Yeah, whatever. I did this on purpose, of course. Wanted to ruin the market's prices. You caught me.


 
gayd (X)
gayd (X)
just trying to explain what effect this behaviour has on a global level Feb 23, 2018

Inez Ulrich wrote:

David GAY wrote:

Could you imagine if everybody worked for non payers/bad payers?
The translation market would be completely ruined because this kind
of agency (if you can call it an agency) obviously offers very competitive
prices.


Yeah, whatever. I did this on purpose, of course. Wanted to ruin the market's prices. You caught me.

I've already seen some incredible BB (40 entries in a row with a 1). So unfortunately you're not the only one in this case.


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I know what you mean, Feb 23, 2018

and of course in this respect you are right. But again, this happened to me for the first time. Before I choose a job, I always check both Proz and TC. I suppose, I didn't because I worked for him once last year and didn't notice he hadn't payed me (I only noticed after I had issued my second invoice), so there was no warning signal in my stomach. Anyway, I'll try to limit my damage from this.

David GAY wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

David GAY wrote:

Could you imagine if everybody worked for non payers/bad payers?
The translation market would be completely ruined because this kind
of agency (if you can call it an agency) obviously offers very competitive
prices.


Yeah, whatever. I did this on purpose, of course. Wanted to ruin the market's prices. You caught me.

I've already seen some incredible BB (40 entries in a row with a 1). So unfortunately you're not the only one in this case.


 
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:50
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Disappearing emails Feb 23, 2018

Nikolaki wrote:

... b) the fact he appears to be able to recall his emails from her email client (though I still can't get my head around that one).


Outlook has a feature to recall emails, although it only works if the recipient is also using Outlook. If this is the case, though, the emails could disappear with nothing nefarious.


 
Nikolaki
Nikolaki  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:50
French to English
OK I see Feb 23, 2018

Thanks John, I didn't realise such a thing existed. Live and learn.

Does this 'recall' feature work with Life as well ? Could come in handy…


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:50
French to English
Small claims procedure Feb 24, 2018

I have only read the first page of posts here. I think there are two very simple things you need to do:
- cease wasting time exchanging with this individual
- take action for recovery (*)

Blueboard, yes, why not. If he is unwilling and/or unable to pay, that will change nothing for you.

Send a formal demand for your money. 200€ is worth chasing with the cost of a form of postal service that acknowledges receipt of the letter. You will probably only have to
... See more
I have only read the first page of posts here. I think there are two very simple things you need to do:
- cease wasting time exchanging with this individual
- take action for recovery (*)

Blueboard, yes, why not. If he is unwilling and/or unable to pay, that will change nothing for you.

Send a formal demand for your money. 200€ is worth chasing with the cost of a form of postal service that acknowledges receipt of the letter. You will probably only have to prove the work was ordered, that you provided it and that the client has not paid... and probably has no intention of doing so. Any procedural steps for recovery will require you to show that you have sent a formal final demand. It's the "on date X you ordered a translation of document X. It was agreed on X date that I would do the job for the sum of X and that I would supply the work by date X. I duly completed the work and sent the invoice on date X. In spite of X requests for payment, the sum due is still outstanding. Please pay the sum of X euros (copy invoice attached) by return. If I have not received payment within 7 days of this letter having been received, I will take legal steps for recovery."
No more, no less.

Keep things in proportion. 200€ is a sum that is irritating not to recover when you have done the work. However, you have to be careful not to spend more time (=money) and energy in trying to get paid. So use the simple small claims procedure that probably exists in the country where your client is. At best, the procedure will force him into paying. At worst, you will find out that he cannot pay, and then decide it is not worth pursuing further. Note that even if you get a judgment in your favour, you may have to take enforcement proceedings as some people do not pay up when they have a judgment ordering them to do so. If that happens, it may simply not be worth pursuing for the 200€ that are due.

As for last year's 44€, you might consider adding it to the claim for recovery of the 200€. However, as it appears that you did not take early action to recover that outstanding amount, (and that action for recovery almost always requires proof that you reminded the debtor of the amount due and issued a formal demand of some sort), I think that you have little chance of recovering that amount.

Final comment: forget the name and shame thing. The important thing is to take the usual formal steps for recovery as cheaply as possible. Anything else is a waste of time and energy and probably of money too. And as I and others have learnt in the past, learn from this experience. Adopt a common sense approach. Be practical. You are in business. This is your job. You provide a service. You have to be paid for that. So:

- know your clients - do brief basic research. If you cant' find recent official and helpful info, cover the risk (ask for a sum upfront, accept only small jobs to start with, etc.)

- keep track of who pays on time - these are probably reliable people who are well organised and are clients you should seek to retain. Bear in mind that this should be the normal course of events and not an exception!

- keep track of those who do not pay on time - you should know at any point in time exactly who owes you what and when. This is very simple to do. Send a simple reminder for overdue accounts immediately... even for 50€. It does not take long for a number of small overdue accounts to add up to a significant amount. When that first simple reminder meets with no response, send a recorded delivery letter with acknowledgement of receipt. This is common practice. Make this part of your routine. It will sort the serious clients from the less serious ones.

[Edited at 2018-02-24 22:15 GMT]
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Abusive exchange with a translation company







TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »