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Why don't I get work?
Thread poster: Paul Dixon
Viviane Marx
Viviane Marx  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:33
German to Portuguese
+ ...
So do I Jun 27, 2018

Vanda Nissen wrote:


You should probably work on your networking skills too - you have mentioned that your friend is busy but it does not look like she is sharing her work with you. Why? I have been receiving some of the best projects from my colleagues who know that I am a good, reliable translator.


It happens to me too. I´m always receiving (and also giving) some projects. It works superb.


P.L.F. Persio
 
Paul Dixon
Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:33
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks and comments Jun 27, 2018

Thanks to all who have replied so far.
1. I will change my photo as suggested, but not today as everything is shut for Brazil x Serbia (in this football-mad country, everything stops or slows down for the World Cup). Would a 3x4 photo be adequate or would a full-size photo be better? I have some full-size photos which I could look through.
2. I shall adjust my rate to see if things improve.
3. At the recent ABRATES conference in Rio there were representatives from a CAT tool pr
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Thanks to all who have replied so far.
1. I will change my photo as suggested, but not today as everything is shut for Brazil x Serbia (in this football-mad country, everything stops or slows down for the World Cup). Would a 3x4 photo be adequate or would a full-size photo be better? I have some full-size photos which I could look through.
2. I shall adjust my rate to see if things improve.
3. At the recent ABRATES conference in Rio there were representatives from a CAT tool provider called Smartcat, apparently it is free. Does anyone have any experience with it, and is it easy to use? I am not a tech-savvy person and do not want an expensive CAT tool or one that is too complex. I have taken one short course in Wordfast and three in Trados, found Wordfast to be much easier. One Wordfast session taught me more than three of Trados!
4. Unicamp (University of Campinas) offered a course on CAT tools last term. If they offer a similar course again, I could take it, even though this would require a long bus trip (no distance learning option). From what I gather, they presented an introduction to several CATs instead of focusing on just one. I would rather learn one CAT in depth, but this does have the advantage of allowing me to choose.
5. OK, I'll put European citizen back on my CV until Brexit is confirmed or (hopefully) reversed.
6. Networking: Opportunities are somewhat limited in Brazil due to the size of the country. However, a FB translators' group has had the idea of organising regional coffees (for social purposes only). I think I shall organise one. My city is small (400 thousand people) but has a much larger population within a 100-km radius.
7. Regarding ProZ, I'll give it a thought when the next job comes in. I assume the normal package (not Plus) would suffice.
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Peter Simon
Peter Simon  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:33
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Others have said a lot, Jun 27, 2018

the main points being that your rate is way too high and you don't show your real capabilities well enough. But.

But I'd like to add that perhaps Proz is not the place where most jobs go through. It is definitely the most professional site with the most professional people assembled here instead of anywhere else but the agencies first turn to their regular, trusted translators first. They tend to have several. When, lacking time, I turn down a request, I don't see ads appear for the
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the main points being that your rate is way too high and you don't show your real capabilities well enough. But.

But I'd like to add that perhaps Proz is not the place where most jobs go through. It is definitely the most professional site with the most professional people assembled here instead of anywhere else but the agencies first turn to their regular, trusted translators first. They tend to have several. When, lacking time, I turn down a request, I don't see ads appear for the same job on here often at all. I should say it rarely happens. But I do get new customers if I manage to be successful with one or another. They do come back, instead of advertising here again. And they do tend to be very picky about rates: when I try to quote a higher rate with a regular who publishes its jobs for their circle of partners (there are several such companies, so you have to get into their circle first and you'll get offers, but nothing is guaranteed even then), I'm not getting jobs. The market is now very-very price competitive.

Another important point, that of CATs, has been mentioned. I should add two things. One, at least half of the jobs come to me with Trados as a requirement - I'm sent a package, translation to be returned in the same way. The reason is that they do analyses on the returned work, which is a lot easier this way than without a CAT. Using Trados, I've got used to other, often on-line tools, which are not very different, and for which the client provides login, so I don't even have to buy them. Two, as our own CATs remember earlier solutions, sometimes they save you tons of work. I was rather poor when I bought Trados 5 y's ago, but it brought back its price within half a year three times over just with one particular project. And it has been proving very fruitful ever since in this department.

But my important guess is that your fee is orbital and scares off most clients. You get work only if nobody else has the time. And then they don't come back because, in the long run, they can't afford you. Try lowering your fees (yeah, by at least half, but perhaps more), and you'll see you can get some regular clients. At least that's the way I see how it works.
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Peter van der Hoek
Sabine Braun
Jorge Payan
Vanda Nissen
Morano El-Kholy
Valérie Ourset
P.L.F. Persio
 
Agneta Pallinder
Agneta Pallinder  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:33
Member (2014)
Swedish to English
+ ...
About your rates again Jun 28, 2018

I see you have reduced your rates, but not, I think, in the best way.

Your previous per word rates looked OK to me, but it is your per hour rate that is absurd. Anyone thinking of employing you can do the simple arithmetic that tells them that you expect to translate at least 1000 words per hour to reach that hourly rate if paid per word. Would that allow time for terminology research, checking, proofreading etc? I somehow doubt it. If I were an outsourcer I would be concerned that
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I see you have reduced your rates, but not, I think, in the best way.

Your previous per word rates looked OK to me, but it is your per hour rate that is absurd. Anyone thinking of employing you can do the simple arithmetic that tells them that you expect to translate at least 1000 words per hour to reach that hourly rate if paid per word. Would that allow time for terminology research, checking, proofreading etc? I somehow doubt it. If I were an outsourcer I would be concerned that I might be getting a Google translation with some prettifications.
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Iris Schmerda
Kevin Clayton, PhD
Josephine Cassar
LEXpert
ahartje
Joe France
MoSpa
 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 10:33
English to Hungarian
+ ...
+1 for this part Jun 28, 2018

Agneta Pallinder wrote:

I see you have reduced your rates, but not, I think, in the best way.

Your previous per word rates looked OK to me, but it is your per hour rate that is absurd.


LEXpert
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Rates Jun 28, 2018

I missed your rates before. They were plain ridiculous and are still silly for your languages. For ProZ at least.

When I was a paying member I came up at the top of searches due to many years of KudoZ contributions, but while I got plenty of enquiries I still got no work at all here because people couldn't stomach £50/hour. And that's for a premium language pair.

I command more than that in the real world, but only because I've put in the time and have sought-after exp
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I missed your rates before. They were plain ridiculous and are still silly for your languages. For ProZ at least.

When I was a paying member I came up at the top of searches due to many years of KudoZ contributions, but while I got plenty of enquiries I still got no work at all here because people couldn't stomach £50/hour. And that's for a premium language pair.

I command more than that in the real world, but only because I've put in the time and have sought-after expertise. On ProZ, you're mainly dealing with cheapskate agencies.

As a non-member, I don't get any enquiries at all.

Try joining ProZ and charging 5p/word and £20/hour and see what happens.
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Mirko Mainardi
P.L.F. Persio
Maksim Mirzabaev
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
PS Jun 28, 2018

Also, try correcting the errors in your sample translations!

 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:33
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
About hourly rates Jun 28, 2018

Agneta Pallinder wrote:

Your previous per word rates looked OK to me, but it is your per hour rate that is absurd.


I live in the same country as the OP, and my take is that "our roller coaster is steeper", i.e. both our feast and famine phases tend to be less predictable. Regarding the current state of affairs here, we are going through times when long-standing politicians are being exposed as corrupt and a few incarcerated, while we'll have elections for president, state governors and legislators in October.

Foreign investors are reasonably in a quandary on whether Brazil will become another Venezuela, heaven on Earth (according to some candidates' promises, as usual), or anything in-between. In the meantime, foreign investors and traders will be quite cautious with their investments/business here, to secure a comfortable fallback position, if the worst comes true. This obviously smothers demand for translation to some extent. October is getting nigh.


Now getting to the point... though I didn't check the OP's rates.

Everybody working is actually selling their TIME (and skills, of course!) to their employer/contractor. If they have higher skills, their time will be more expensive, because they'll be able to produce more and/or more valuable results.

When a translator charges per word, the burden of risk is on his/her side. The client is 'safe', because they know beforehand how much they'll spend to get the job done. If the job is difficult, the translator will have to muster the knowledge and skill to do it as efficiently as possible to make a living.

When an interpreter charges per hour, this means that s/he will be available to do it for a specific period of time, receiving a fixed amount, regardless of whether the interpretee speaks at a snail's pace, yacks like a spitfire, or even fails to show up! Again, the client is 'safe', the burden of risk is on the interpreter.

The two situations above are sustainable, because the client feels safe to do business.

Now, what would be an unsafe situation for the client?
IMHO it's when the wrong metrics are used.

My pet example involves DTP, where I'd consider the proper metrics to be charging per page after an assessment on the job complexity has been made by the service provider.
However some outsourcers think that DTP work should be paid by the hour.

Let's consider a DTP job a client wants me to do using Page Maker. I've been using it for over a quarter century, so I can do anything in a snap! Charging by the hour, I'll be grossly underpaid for all the years I've invested in mastering it.
However if the same client requires me to do the very same job using QuakXpress, they'll spend a fortune for all the hours I'll spend reading manuals & help screens, and in trial-and-error attempts.
Neither situation is sustainable.

Then some outsourcers want to pay for proofreading/reviewing/editing by the hour, without giving any clue on how much actual effort it will take, IOW how good or bad is the translation to be worked on. This is clearly not sustainable, as the client is not 'safe' here.

So I avoid charging by time, unless there is no better metric, like in the case of interpreting. Otherwise the client won't feel safe. Therefore I avoid mentioning that there could be an hourly rate.

In the specific case here, a hefty hourly rate may be acting as a deterrent, since few clients - if any - have an idea on how many words any translator is able to produce per hour. Of course they do know how much people make per hour, as they probably have employees, and their own income and working hours to use as a yardstick to compare.


Vladimir Filipenko
P.L.F. Persio
 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:33
SITE FOUNDER
Try it again, Chris S Jun 28, 2018

Chris S wrote:

... while I got plenty of enquiries I still got no work at all here because people couldn't stomach £50/hour.

This surprises me. There are companies out there that need your skills and are willing and able to pay the rates in your profile. (People care more and more about quality of writing. They have to.)

I would think you would already understand this, Chris, but maybe for others' benefit: The average ProZ.com member (paying, I mean) meets a new client every 3-4 months. A person charging above the average (but nothing extraordinary), may expect the frequency to be maybe one to two new clients a year. So after two years, you've picked up two to four new clients. (Who you then retain, without going through the site.) It is a no-brainer, really.

Someone who has very high rates (twice what you quote here), if they have a clear specialization for which there is demand in the market (as you do) should maybe expect a new client that meets their criteria once every two years. And in such situations, in most cases, a single client will pay for a career of ProZ.com membership.

You should try membership again, Chris S, obviously with no change in your rates. If you don't meet a client after two years I would refund both years of the membership fee.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:33
SITE FOUNDER
Further thought on strategy for Chris S Jun 28, 2018

Chris S wrote:

... while I got plenty of enquiries I still got no work at all here because people couldn't stomach £50/hour.

Thinking on this further, Chris S, I can tell you that internally, we refer to the "big three" profile fields: name, tagline and photo. We know that each of these -- the three things you get to display prominently in the directory -- have a big influence on rate of new client acquisition. Full names clearly work better. A certain type of photo clearly works better. Probably you could show your full name, and put in a different image, and get better results.

As for your tagline, it should be strong and effective. But you might want to consider working in something about your writing. Some money seems to going in that direction these days.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:33
SITE FOUNDER
To Paul Jun 28, 2018

Not to highjack the thread, I would credit you, Paul, for courageously coming to the forums with this topic. I think there was some good advice and it is good to see you being amenable. I don't have much to add at this point.

Josephine Cassar
Olga Gartzonika
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
@Henry Jun 29, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:
There are companies out there that need your skills and are willing and able to pay the rates in your profile. (People care more and more about quality of writing. They have to.)

Indeed, but I'm not sure they use ProZ. The vast majority of companies here are looking for very low rates.

Henry Dotterer wrote:
You should try membership again, Chris S, obviously with no change in your rates. If you don't meet a client after two years I would refund both years of the membership fee.

A generous offer in theory, thank you, but one I would only take up if you had a system in place to filter out the endless stream of enquiries from timewasters who ignore my stated rates and only want to pay peanuts.

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Full names clearly work better. A certain type of photo clearly works better. Probably you could show your full name, and put in a different image, and get better results.

Undoubtedly, but I'm not really looking for work here. (And semi-anonymity allows me to speak my mind in the forums and keeps my good name untarnished by some of the more moronic KudoZ comments.)


Mirko Mainardi
P.L.F. Persio
neilmac
Melanie Meyer
 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:33
SITE FOUNDER
Thanks, Chris S Jun 29, 2018

Chris S wrote:
Henry Dotterer wrote:
There are companies out there that need your skills and are willing and able to pay the rates in your profile. (People care more and more about quality of writing. They have to.)

Indeed, but I'm not sure they use ProZ.

Where would you go, in such moment of need? They come.

A generous offer in theory, thank you, but one I would only take up if you had a system in place to filter out the endless stream of enquiries from timewasters who ignore my stated rates and only want to pay peanuts.

I understand that. Fair enough.

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Full names clearly work better. A certain type of photo clearly works better. Probably you could show your full name, and put in a different image, and get better results.

Undoubtedly, but I'm not really looking for work here. (And semi-anonymity allows me to speak my mind in the forums and keeps my good name untarnished by some of the more moronic KudoZ comments.)

Got it!


 
Josephine Cassar
Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Malta
Local time: 10:33
Member (2012)
English to Maltese
+ ...
With Proz.com Professional membership Jun 30, 2018

You also get access to CafeTrans Espresso as a Cat tool-easy to use and very good. Consider and do not just discard. Paying for CafeTrans Espresso is also cheaper than paying for Studio 2017/19 though there is a very good offer now and many agencies demand the latter. Cafe trans Espresso will speed up your work no end too till you can get to grips and buy it. (Studio offer a 30-day trial period) but Cafe trans is easier and cheaper.

Michele Fauble
 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 10:33
Member
English to Italian
"Plus" Jun 30, 2018

Josephine Cassar wrote:

With Proz.com Professional membership

You also get access to CafeTrans Espresso as a Cat tool-easy to use and very good. Consider and do not just discard. Paying for CafeTrans Espresso is also cheaper than paying for Studio 2017/19 though there is a very good offer now and many agencies demand the latter. Cafe trans Espresso will speed up your work no end too till you can get to grips and buy it. (Studio offer a 30-day trial period) but Cafe trans is easier and cheaper.


Actually, both "Plus" and "standard" tiers are part of "Professional membership" (for now, at least...), but you only get CT with the "Plus package".

As for the CAT tool itself, as I always say, it all depends on what your clients require. If they work with the server versions of a specific CAT tool to prepare and allocate projects, then you just have to have that specific CAT tool, no matter how good, easy to use, cheap, feature-crammed or whatever another tool is...

[Edited at 2018-06-30 07:56 GMT]


 
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