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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)
Thread poster: Zhoudan
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
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Hi Kevin, Feb 23, 2008

什么时候有时间也和我们大家聊聊你的教授生活,放松放松

 
pkchan
pkchan  Identity Verified
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Kevin大哥, Feb 23, 2008

就讓他們說吧,打不起來的。他們的討論,增加了對問題的認識,是好事。香港,台灣及美國,甚至法國大選,這裡的人都很關心,做生意,怎不留意時局,否則政治顧問便要失業了,同樣,譯人亦要對政治有所認識,特別要有地域政治的觸角。石大姐、文哲兄的討論,是NEWSWEEK, TIME, WALL STREET JOURNAL都看不見的,聰明點,國台辦的大員也要好好拿來學習。若是有人看得不舒服,請發PK一個電郵,給予她and/or他開導。

 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 07:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
回到主题 Feb 23, 2008

PK兄:

我想,这串是谈难翻的词,离题了原本就应该再回到主题。其次,本网站已经定下方针,不谈宗教和政治,如果偶尔涉入这两种话题,还没有引发争议,或许不那么严格执行那样的方针,但若已经有迹象显示会让人不悦而可能引发更大的争议,作适度的干预是应当的。这种情况不是让不让人说话的问题,而是避免论坛乌烟瘴气的必要措施,我很能理解。如果真有兴趣谈时局、时事,定好规矩,保证不发生人身攻击,另外开个栏专谈这方面的事情,那倒也可以。不过,这栏就到此为止。要说难翻的词,“规矩”这个词在英语里也不是挺好翻译的呢。


 
pkchan
pkchan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:47
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
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離題是在所難免的 Feb 23, 2008

想到那,就談到那,無所不談,當然,有規矩,就跟規矩,只要是君子淑女的討論,個人來說,不太同意要設下什麼關卡、地雷,不過話事權不在我,既然文哲兄不願再談,亦不免強,不過,PK是十分敬佩參予討論兩人,議事論事的交鋒,執著,頑強,能言善辯,水平甚高。

[Edited at 2008-02-23 21:14]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
Chinese to English
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park admissions Feb 23, 2008

Jason Ma wrote:

例如**人次**,虽然以.cn结尾的网页上多以person-times来翻译,可这个词在英文中不太常用。
那还要加个注释不成?

昨日从市假日办获悉,从年三十至年初六,杭州各景区景点累计共接待游客317.78万人次。
Hangzhou Received over 3 millon tourists during Spring Festival Holiday.

按照平常的理解, **次**还表示某些人意犹未尽,故地重游,所以也算在这个317.78万中。如果不用person-times, 又该怎么说才清楚呢?请赐教。



Jason,

Here's one way of getting around this problem you mentioned ...

Over the Spring Festival holidays, total admissions to the major tourist attractions in Hangzhou reached 317.78 million.

I agree with you that "person-times" is not a commonly used term. I've heard of "man-hours" in the sizing of a project, but not "person-times".



[Edited at 2008-02-23 22:19]


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 12:47
Chinese to English
还有两个 Feb 24, 2008

a more environmentally sustainable future
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2419766

结构性矛盾
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2430625

'person-times' maybe can be translated 'visits'

[Edited at 2008-02-24 04:06]


 
Zhoudan
Zhoudan  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
good Feb 24, 2008

在英译中材料中看到过用visits,当时记得自己也是译成“人次”的。反过来就不太记得用。

lai an wrote:

'person-times' maybe can be translated 'visits'


[Edited at 2008-02-24 02:42]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
Chinese to English
+ ...
Sounds good Feb 24, 2008

Zhoudan wrote:

在英译中材料中看到过用visits,当时记得自己也是译成“人次”的。反过来就不太记得用。

lai an wrote:

'person-times' maybe can be translated 'visits'


Total visits to major attractions numbered 317.78 million.


 
Jason Ma
Jason Ma  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
Yeah, "admissions" and "visits" seems more natural in English Feb 24, 2008

If we stick to "人" and "次", then it's likely to become a mud pool.
Thanks.


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
By the same token Feb 24, 2008

Zhoudan wrote:

在英译中材料中看到过用visits,当时记得自己也是译成“人次”的。反过来就不太记得用。


The thread 翻译与美食 (Translation and Gourmet Food) has received more than 534,000 hits so far.


 
Milton Guo
Milton Guo  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 07:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
very good Feb 24, 2008

admission & visits

"人次"也说明汉语有时表达得比英语严谨

wherestip wrote:

Jason Ma wrote:

例如**人次**,虽然以.cn结尾的网页上多以person-times来翻译,可这个词在英文中不太常用。
那还要加个注释不成?

昨日从市假日办获悉,从年三十至年初六,杭州各景区景点累计共接待游客317.78万人次。
Hangzhou Received over 3 millon tourists during Spring Festival Holiday.

按照平常的理解, **次**还表示某些人意犹未尽,故地重游,所以也算在这个317.78万中。如果不用person-times, 又该怎么说才清楚呢?请赐教。



Jason,

Here's one way of getting around this problem you mentioned ...

Over the Spring Festival holidays, total admissions to the major tourist attractions in Hangzhou reached 317.78 million.

I agree with you that "person-times" is not a commonly used term. I've heard of "man-hours" in the sizing of a project, but not "person-times".



[Edited at 2008-02-23 22:19]


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
Chinese to English
+ ...
举一反三 Feb 24, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Zhoudan wrote:

在英译中材料中看到过用visits,当时记得自己也是译成“人次”的。反过来就不太记得用。


The thread 翻译与美食 (Translation and Gourmet Food) has received more than 534,000 hits so far.


对, 有些东西不能硬翻. 否则就出现 person-times 这种自我创造.

total flights (班次总数)

passenger boardings (乘客人次)


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
Agree Feb 24, 2008

wherestip wrote:
举一反三

对, 有些东西不能硬翻. 否则就出现 person-times 这种自我创造.

total flights (班次总数)

passenger boardings (乘客人次)

Stve,

我完全同意你所说的“不能硬翻”,也就是不能机械地理解和翻译。所谓“four happy meat balls" 就是一个典型的硬翻例子。虽然 “person-time” 、 “man-time” 也被编入上海交大所编的《汉英大词典》,但我们翻译时应该灵活一些,应该根据上下文、根据具体情况、意境来设想一下,这种译法能否被英语为母语者理解,英语为母语者可能会怎么说。这使我想起一个Kudoz问题“如火如荼”,上下文是“第六届亚洲冬季运动会的各项赛事在长春如火如荼地举行”。
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1820474

我当时也查了《汉英大词典》。该词典对于“如火如荼”的解释如下:
Like a raging fire; flaring up like fire set to dry tinder; growing vigorously; massed together in splendid formation.
但我总觉得,如果照搬的话,外国人看了会不理解。此时,我想起电视体育节目里常听到的一种说法 “in full swing”,觉得用在此上下文中比较恰如其分。当然,也许还有更好的说法。

我认为,翻译时不能完全照搬词典,而应该在词典解释的基础上灵活应用、举一反三。唯有如此,才能翻译出上乘的作品来。从某种意义上讲,翻译是再创造,而不是简单的转换。对于文学作品尤其如此。否则一本著名的小说就可能被翻译成“白开水”。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:47
Chinese to English
+ ...
如火如荼 Feb 24, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:


我完全同意你所说的“不能硬翻”,也就是不能机械地理解和翻译。所谓“four happy meat balls" 就是一个典型的硬翻例子。虽然 “person-time” 、 “man-time” 也被编入上海交大所编的《汉英大词典》,但我们翻译时应该灵活一些,应该根据上下文、根据具体情况、意境来设想一下,这种译法能否被英语为母语者理解,英语为母语者可能会怎么说。这使我想起一个Kudoz问题“如火如荼”,上下文是“第六届亚洲冬季运动会的各项赛事在长春如火如荼地举行”。
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1820474

我当时也查了《汉英大词典》。该词典对于“如火如荼”的解释如下:
Like a raging fire; flaring up like fire set to dry tinder; growing vigorously; massed together in splendid formation.
但我总觉得,如果照搬的话,外国人看了会不理解。此时,我想起电视体育节目里常听到的一种说法 “in full swing”,觉得用在此上下文中比较恰如其分。当然,也许还有更好的说法。

我认为,翻译时不能完全照搬词典,而应该在词典解释的基础上灵活应用、举一反三。唯有如此,才能翻译出上乘的作品来。从某种意义上讲,翻译是再创造,而不是简单的转换。对于文学作品尤其如此。否则一本著名的小说就可能被翻译成“白开水”。


Yes, "in full swing" is very good here. 这种情况要按意思翻. 不能见"火" 就翻 fire or flames.


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 07:47
English to Chinese
+ ...
如火如“茶” Feb 24, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:

... 这使我想起一个Kudoz问题“如火如荼”,上下文是“第六届亚洲冬季运动会的各项赛事在长春如火如荼地举行”。
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1820474

我当时也查了《汉英大词典》。该词典对于“如火如荼”的解释如下:
Like a raging fire; flaring up like fire set to dry tinder; growing vigorously; massed together in splendid formation.
但我总觉得,如果照搬的话,外国人看了会不理解。此时,我想起电视体育节目里常听到的一种说法 “in full swing”,觉得用在此上下文中比较恰如其分。当然,也许还有更好的说法。


这个有趣。“火”和“荼”到底是什么?原典见 http://baike.baidu.com/view/45402.htm

若不知原意而照字面猜着翻译,或照原意硬生生翻译,那就很容易出现 like a raging fire; flaring up like fire set to dry tinder; growing vigorously; massed together in splendid formation 这类的译法。Flaring up like fire set to dry tinder 听起来像是“干柴烈火”呢!Massed together in splendid formation 比较接近原意,但是太生硬了。

在台湾,我们常常开玩笑说“如火如茶”,开的是滥用成语的玩笑。有时不甚了解的成语最好查一下,免得误解了还用得“如火如茶”,再经过翻译解读就变成“干柴烈火”,本来要说“战战兢兢”却说成“颤巍巍”了。:D 不过,这类错误很容易发生,翻译者不是上帝,难免犯错,只是存点怀疑,不要太过于自信的好。比方说,“您的夫人”或“我的内人”有时听来好象没有错,但仔细查考一下,还真的错了呢。

我在翻译一篇西班牙民间故事时,用了这个成语说,“钱先生和福太太谈恋爱,谈得如火如荼”,理解的意思也是 in full swing,与原本“形容某种人群或事物阵容之大,气势之盛”的意思还是有点儿差距,但是这样使用,能够制造出滑稽的效果,倒也有趣。


[Edited at 2008-02-24 17:36]


 
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难翻的词 (The English words that are very difficult to translate into Chinese)






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