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¡Finally here! WWA rating for translators
Thread poster: Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Philippe Locquet
Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
What about disputes? Oct 20, 2017

In case of disputes, let's have fun with some maths.
Let's suppose there are 75 000 paying members on ProZ. com (an estimate, I can't find the exact figure).
When the new rating feature is introduced, exluding those that chose to opt-out from the feature, say 50 000 leave it on. Out of these let's say half get into rating disputes (seems likely) we are left with 25 000 yearly disputes.
There are 9 ProZ staff members on the support team. They already have a lot on their hands. <
... See more
In case of disputes, let's have fun with some maths.
Let's suppose there are 75 000 paying members on ProZ. com (an estimate, I can't find the exact figure).
When the new rating feature is introduced, exluding those that chose to opt-out from the feature, say 50 000 leave it on. Out of these let's say half get into rating disputes (seems likely) we are left with 25 000 yearly disputes.
There are 9 ProZ staff members on the support team. They already have a lot on their hands. https://www.proz.com/support
25 000 / 9 = 2777,77
2777,77 / 365 = 7,610
So each support team member will have to deal with close to 8 disputes a day on average on top of everything they are doing.
Will we get proper attention with such a load? Seems very difficult to achieve.
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Philippe Locquet
Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
Opting-out counter-effect? Oct 20, 2017

Thed trend seems that seasoned translators that know how agencies can behave are willing to opt-out from this feature.
However, seasoned colleagues are the ones that are keeping the prices still reasonable.
Let's think about all the new ones that want to get on the market, they'll have to leave this rating on in the beginning and they have to take cheaper to get a fighting chance among the competition.
I'm wondering: If all seasoned translators opt-out or ditch their membership
... See more
Thed trend seems that seasoned translators that know how agencies can behave are willing to opt-out from this feature.
However, seasoned colleagues are the ones that are keeping the prices still reasonable.
Let's think about all the new ones that want to get on the market, they'll have to leave this rating on in the beginning and they have to take cheaper to get a fighting chance among the competition.
I'm wondering: If all seasoned translators opt-out or ditch their membership, could this not have an impact on pricing in the long run?
Would it not be better to simply withdraw the feature alltogether?
Just wondering...

My bests to all
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Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 23:44
German to English
+ ...
A little out of topic but relevant Oct 20, 2017

I wonder if ProZ has plans to "improve" (meaning to ruin completely and irreparably) its invoicing tool. My subscription expires in a month and its renewal depends completely on this issue.

 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 05:44
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Exlplore? Oct 20, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

The concept being explored here -- and it is at a relatively early stage -- is to supplement WWA with 1-5 star "WWA ratings", just as last year in the Blue Board LWA was supplemented with 1-5 star category ratings. There are a number of reasons to explore this sort of approach, but one of them is that ProZ.com is now programmatically connected with other platforms and tools, and 1-5 stars is a very common standard. (For example, our partnership with Boostlingo resulted in 600 calls to ProZ.com interpreters last week. After most or all of these calls, the client was asked to rate the interpreter on a 1-5 scale. This data can be pulled into ProZ.com, for the potential use -- at their discretion -- of the interpreters.)

So do I understand correctly that this paragraph is an outright lie, since there has obviously been no exploration, just a direct release?


 
Christel Zipfel
Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:44
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Thank you, Mirko! Oct 20, 2017

Mirko Mainardi wrote:


IMO the point is that ProZ would be nothing without outsourcers using it, which is why they are "worth more" to them than service providers, even though the latter actually pay the bulk of subscriptions (and contribute much more towards ads revenue, traffic generation, free content creation, partnerships with software developers, etc.)...

The vibe I've been getting for a while now, with the endless non-stop changes being made (regardless or even in open spite of existing users' opinions and concerns), and with repeated remarks such as the 'old folks' one, is that they don't really care if a few (or many) 'old folks' stop paying for membership and/or, even better, leave altogether, because they will be replaced by "new folks", who obviously can't compare the "new ProZ" with the "old ProZ" and who will in most cases be enthusiastic about anything new (and shiny) that is thrown at them, also considering that many of them will find concepts such as first-come-first-served automatic project allocation systems, crowdsourced translation platforms,"freelance" portals that pay $5 for 500 words, etc. etc. to be "the norm" instead of something to complain and/or be worried about...

[Edited at 2017-10-20 11:31 GMT]


Very well put!


 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agreed Oct 21, 2017

Christel Zipfel wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:


IMO the point is that ProZ would be nothing without outsourcers using it, which is why they are "worth more" to them than service providers, even though the latter actually pay the bulk of subscriptions (and contribute much more towards ads revenue, traffic generation, free content creation, partnerships with software developers, etc.)...

The vibe I've been getting for a while now, with the endless non-stop changes being made (regardless or even in open spite of existing users' opinions and concerns), and with repeated remarks such as the 'old folks' one, is that they don't really care if a few (or many) 'old folks' stop paying for membership and/or, even better, leave altogether, because they will be replaced by "new folks", who obviously can't compare the "new ProZ" with the "old ProZ" and who will in most cases be enthusiastic about anything new (and shiny) that is thrown at them, also considering that many of them will find concepts such as first-come-first-served automatic project allocation systems, crowdsourced translation platforms,"freelance" portals that pay $5 for 500 words, etc. etc. to be "the norm" instead of something to complain and/or be worried about...

[Edited at 2017-10-20 11:31 GMT]


Very well put!


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:44
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Caring Oct 21, 2017

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

.... they don't really care ....


That's because currently (although the existence of other portals enables it to claim that it does have competitors) Proz is a monopoly and can do whatever it wants. But that won't last forever.


 
Philippe Locquet
Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
Maybe they'll hear? Oct 21, 2017

If there's a wide section of the community that wishes the feature gone, why not submit a support request explaining how we feel about it?
Has anyone tried that?

My bests


 
writeaway
writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Another agree: kudos for your perspicacity Oct 21, 2017

Robert Forstag wrote:

Christel Zipfel wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:


IMO the point is that ProZ would be nothing without outsourcers using it, which is why they are "worth more" to them than service providers, even though the latter actually pay the bulk of subscriptions (and contribute much more towards ads revenue, traffic generation, free content creation, partnerships with software developers, etc.)...

The vibe I've been getting for a while now, with the endless non-stop changes being made (regardless or even in open spite of existing users' opinions and concerns), and with repeated remarks such as the 'old folks' one, is that they don't really care if a few (or many) 'old folks' stop paying for membership and/or, even better, leave altogether, because they will be replaced by "new folks", who obviously can't compare the "new ProZ" with the "old ProZ" and who will in most cases be enthusiastic about anything new (and shiny) that is thrown at them, also considering that many of them will find concepts such as first-come-first-served automatic project allocation systems, crowdsourced translation platforms,"freelance" portals that pay $5 for 500 words, etc. etc. to be "the norm" instead of something to complain and/or be worried about...

[Edited at 2017-10-20 11:31 GMT]


Very well put!


Spot on, unfortunately. Imo.


 
Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 23:44
German to English
+ ...
In my book, Oct 21, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

.... they don't really care ....


That's because currently (although the existence of other portals enables it to claim that it does have competitors) Proz is a monopoly and can do whatever it wants. But that won't last forever.


the cause is the critical lack of strategic thinking or inability to see past the end of (their) nose. Self-proclaimed maharajas seldom are the brightest crayons in the box or the sharpest tools in the shed.

[Edited at 2017-10-21 11:37 GMT]


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:44
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Secede Oct 21, 2017

Why not go the Catalan way? It seems to work out like a charm.

 
Philippe Locquet
Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
Ranking Oct 24, 2017

Hi all,

Taking that form the other thread about this feature https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/319753-new_wwa_rating_service.html

Drew MacFadyen wrote:
Is there/will there be an option to not display ratings publicly, but to allow ratings to be used in directory searches?

At this time WWA ratings will not have an effect on directory position or rank.


As a matter of fact when browsing the directory, feedback has always been a sorting feature (makes sense too, if you want to hire someone, you'd wish they have a good reputation, same as with agencies, we want to make sure they are good payers). Page: https://www.proz.com/translator-directory/

See screenshot


With the new system, I'm guessing this sorting feature could be modified. But how?, We'll have to wait and see.

My bests to all.


 
Philippe Locquet
Philippe Locquet  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:44
English to French
+ ...
Screenshot Oct 24, 2017

Here

[Modifié le 2017-10-24 08:38 GMT]

screenshot

[Modifié le 2017-10-24 08:42 GMT]


 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:44
Member
English to Italian
Obvious is obvious Oct 24, 2017

Fi2 n Co wrote:

Hi all,

Taking that form the other thread about this feature https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/319753-new_wwa_rating_service.html

Drew MacFadyen wrote:
Is there/will there be an option to not display ratings publicly, but to allow ratings to be used in directory searches?

At this time WWA ratings will not have an effect on directory position or rank.


As a matter of fact when browsing the directory, feedback has always been a sorting feature (makes sense too, if you want to hire someone, you'd wish they have a good reputation, same as with agencies, we want to make sure they are good payers). Page: https://www.proz.com/translator-directory/

See screenshot


With the new system, I'm guessing this sorting feature could be modified. But how?, We'll have to wait and see.


It's obvious they plan on using the rating in directory searches as well (because that's what outsourcers want, right?), probably starting as another search option, like the one you were referring to. In that case, the value is binary: WWA/no WWA. In the near future it will probably be with "stars" from 1 to 5, like on Ebay, Amazon, Booking, Expedia, etc.... Further down the line, it will then become an integrated sorting option, from high to low (pretty much the way it is now on the BB, also seeing how they've been handling this basically the same way as that...).

I'm pretty sure they would've gladly dispensed with the old WWA system altogether when introducing the new one, but "unfortunately" many 'old folks' here have already gathered many such ratings, so it will be a slower phasing out process, which starts by making the old WWAs basically useless, harder to leave, and easily confused with the new ones (i.e. same name).


 
Georgie Scott
Georgie Scott  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 22:44
French to English
+ ...
Display issues Mar 12, 2018

Are there any plans to sort out the bugs introduced by this new system?

WWA used to be really clear and easy to read, now it is quite a mess.

bug

[Edited at 2018-03-12 10:42 GMT]


 
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¡Finally here! WWA rating for translators







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