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Do you use pirated software?
Thread poster: Emma Goldsmith
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:02
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
It's about living within your means Jun 23, 2014

Orrin Cummins wrote:
I understand the point you are trying to make, but this analogy breaks down when you consider that many agencies require that a translator uses Trados (or another "name-brand" CAT tool) in order to receive jobs. Eating at an expensive restaurant is not in any way required for anything, it's a luxury. You can get just as much nutrition eating at a soup kitchen for free.

I would say that the analogy holds because just as there are alternatives to restaurants as sources of food, there are alternatives to translation as careers. One doesn't need to insist on a particular career in order to make enough money on which to live. One might have a preference, but that's a different issue.

CAT software may justifiably regarded as an important tool of the trade, but should we argue that it's okay for somebody to steal tools because without that tool that person will be unable to carry out his chosen trade?

I might want to be a farmer but if I can't afford a farm - the basic tool of a farmer - then I can't participate in that line of employment. Or maybe I can afford a farm but not the tractor and equipment I'd need to farm it. It doesn't justify me stealing a farm, or agricultural equipment.

One could say the same about 3D solid modelling software for a designer, machine tools for a metal fabricator, scissors for a hair dresser and so on.


 
Neil Coffey
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I think you downplay the security issue Jun 23, 2014

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
This prompted me to write a blog post about it:


You raise some interesting points, but if I may say, I think you downplay the security issue. Rather than relegating it to point number 6, I'd say this is the major reason for not using pirated software. Remember that the very people that have the knowledge to "crack" protected commercial software are precisely the same people that have the knowledge to inject viruses and trojans into their cracked versions of the software. And do you really think they're investing their efforts into pirating your favourite CAT tool just to save you some money on your translation business...?

You should basically *assume* that any pirated software contains a virus or trojan rather than seeing it as a minor risk.

Remember too that major botnets that are responsible for spamming operations and other more serious cybercrime rely on a critical mass of infected machines and that part of our protection against malware is that the population at large does its utmost to avoid installing it. (So from that point of view, using pirated software is not just a personal risk-- it's also *socially* irresponsible in the same way that it's socially irresponsible not to vaccinate your children and thereby preserve "herd immunity" for everyone.)

[Edited at 2014-06-23 20:37 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
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All my mother needed when she started translating was an electric typewriter and a fax. Jun 23, 2014

Dan Lucas wrote:

Orrin Cummins wrote:
I understand the point you are trying to make, but this analogy breaks down when you consider that many agencies require that a translator uses Trados (or another "name-brand" CAT tool) in order to receive jobs. Eating at an expensive restaurant is not in any way required for anything, it's a luxury. You can get just as much nutrition eating at a soup kitchen for free.

I would say that the analogy holds because just as there are alternatives to restaurants as sources of food, there are alternatives to translation as careers. One doesn't need to insist on a particular career in order to make enough money on which to live. One might have a preference, but that's a different issue.

CAT software may justifiably regarded as an important tool of the trade, but should we argue that it's okay for somebody to steal tools because without that tool that person will be unable to carry out his chosen trade?

I might want to be a farmer but if I can't afford a farm - the basic tool of a farmer - then I can't participate in that line of employment. Or maybe I can afford a farm but not the tractor and equipment I'd need to farm it. It doesn't justify me stealing a farm, or agricultural equipment.

One could say the same about 3D solid modelling software for a designer, machine tools for a metal fabricator, scissors for a hair dresser and so on.

We need to ask ourselves why it is becoming increasingly difficult to accept jobs without having specific CAT tools, thus making it difficult for people to carry out their chosen trade. All my mother needed when she started translating was an electric typewriter and a fax. Now I need SDL Studio, 4 versions of memoQ, Wordfast (Pro and Classic), and a few other ones just to be safe. When looked at this way, I think CAT tool theft becomes decreasingly problematic.

And don’t even get me started on the 17 different ‘Translation Management Systems’ (I have a special bookmark folder in Chrome called ‘All the Plunets’) I now need to deal with just to get paid by all these idiots.

Michael

[Edited at 2014-06-23 20:54 GMT]


Emna Jaoued
Mirna Vilisic
 
Michael Beijer
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United Kingdom
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Dutch to English
+ ...
Just look for a pink or green skull and crossbones symbol;) Jun 23, 2014

Neil Coffey wrote:

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
This prompted me to write a blog post about it:


You raise some interesting points, but if I may say, I think you downplay the security issue. Rather than relegating it to point number 6, I'd say this is the major reason for not using pirated software. Remember that the very people that have the knowledge to "crack" protected commercial software are precisely the same people that have the knowledge to inject viruses and trojans into their cracked versions of the software. And do you really think they're investing their efforts into pirating your favourite CAT tool just to save you some money on your translation business...?

You should basically *assume* that any pirated software contains a virus or trojan rather than seeing it as a minor risk.

Remember too that major botnets that are responsible for spamming operations and other more serious cybercrime rely on a critical mass of infected machines and that part of our protection against malware is that the population at large does its utmost to avoid installing it. (So from that point of view, using pirated software is not just a personal risk-- it's also *socially* irresponsible in the same way that it's socially irresponsible not to vaccinate your children and thereby preserve "herd immunity" for everyone.)

[Edited at 2014-06-23 20:37 GMT]

That’s what the colour-coded skull and crossbones system* on the piratebay is for

Michael

*Green = VIP
  Pink = Trusted
  Blue = Staff


 
Samuel Murray
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Netherlands
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English to Afrikaans
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Never admit to it, even if everyone does it Jun 23, 2014

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
Do you use pirated software?


One should never admit to using pirated software. It is unprofessional to admit to it. It is also unprofessional to use it, but the important point is not that you not should use it, but that you shouldn't openly admit to it and you certainly should not brag about it. Why? Because you never know when you might meet a client who doesn't think about it the way you do. And that could hurt your business and your online reputation.

http://signsandsymptomsoftranslation.com/2014/06/23/pirated-trados/
I was at a translation event recently and met a translator who ran an agency. We had a brief chat about language pairs and rates, and then to my surprise, the translator said he’d just got hold of a new OCR tool and offered to send me a copy.


He probably felt that he was doing a morally good thing, by sharing the love.

Many people who use pirated software are actually unaware that it is probably illegal to do so and that it is regarded (rightly so) as theft by its distributor (and usually also by the law). If something is theft, then normally it is also morally wrong, but for some reason many people don't make that connection.

If you meet someone who offers you pirated software and you believe that it is wrong, then you must say so. Who knows -- that poor bloke might actually feel the way you do, but just doesn't realise that he is in contravention of the way he feels, in this particular case, because he just never thought it through.

I think that it is important that people who engage in software piracy realise that what they're doing is theft, is probably illegal and is considered morally wrong by some people. If a person uses pirated software, he should beware not be lulled into believing that what he's doing is normal and fine and universally acceptable.

You mention seven reasons on your blog about why software piracy is bad. None of those seven reasons do it for me, I'm afraid. I don't think software piracy is bad per se. I think that admitting to using pirated software is downright stupid, however.

It’s only fair. I don’t translate for free (except when I choose to) and I don’t expect software companies to work for me for free either.
- Not a fair comparison. You don't sell copies of your translation to multiple clients.

Help keep down the price of the software. The less translators use pirated copies of a program, the less expensive it will be for the rest of us.
- I have never seen evidence of software companies reducing prices because they managed to reduce piracy.

Get support for any issues that might crop up.
- You get free support from a variety of sources anyway (forums, mailing lists, etc.)

Get access to upgrades with new features.
- You get access to upgrades with new features if you're using pirated software, too. It just takes a little while longer for you to get it. And the new features are seldom deal-breakers.

Pay for your software and decrease your taxable income. Investing in hardware, software and continuing professional development (conferences, webinars) is a win-win situation.
- The less you spend, the money money you have. The more money you have, the more tax you pay. Yes, but if you spend less, you'll end up with more money than if you had spent a lot.

Don’t risk infecting your work machine with malware.
- Virtual machine. Spare laptop. Sandboxing software.

Keep a clear conscience.
- The most amazing thing about people doing stuff that they shouldn't is that they usually find a way to justify it to themselves.



[Edited at 2014-06-23 21:08 GMT]


 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:02
German to English
Not any longer Jun 23, 2014

I've been using a computer for translation since the 1980s. Until relatively recently, a lot of programs had copy protection that made it difficult to make a "demo" copy to determine whether a particular software product was useful. Eventually various programs were developed to remove this copy protection, or smart would-be users figured out ways to defeat time limitations, etc. on "demo" software. I bought a couple of "cracker" utilities.

With the advent of the Internet, software d
... See more
I've been using a computer for translation since the 1980s. Until relatively recently, a lot of programs had copy protection that made it difficult to make a "demo" copy to determine whether a particular software product was useful. Eventually various programs were developed to remove this copy protection, or smart would-be users figured out ways to defeat time limitations, etc. on "demo" software. I bought a couple of "cracker" utilities.

With the advent of the Internet, software developers wised up and imposed online registration requirements in order to continue the use of the software. This usually allowed a would-be user to try out the software for a limited period before having to buy/register it. People could thus share copies of their purchased software with colleagues who would have a time-limited opportunity to try it out.

The various "warez" sites pose a serious hazard to users, and I've stayed clear of them. I really don't want to risk down time due to a virus.

My own approach to pirated software was simple: if it proved useful and I could make money with it, I bought the program. If there were no benefit, I'd stop using it and remove the program from my hard drive. With today's relatively generous trial periods, and detailed online discussions of the shortcomings of various programs, I really have no need to try out pirated copies of software.
Collapse


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
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English to Spanish
+ ...
NEVER EVER (in capitals)! Jun 23, 2014

As an ex-software localiser and someone who frequently translates about software-based products and services, I would be shooting myself in the foot if I used pirated software.

I reckon a large number of us translate stuff for companies who develop software as part of their services and products. Let's do our best to pay for this software so that developers and localisers can make a living, the same way we strive for reasonable rates for our translations.


 
Samuel Murray
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Netherlands
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English to Afrikaans
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@Ali, @Kevin, @Tomás Jun 23, 2014

Ali Bayraktar wrote:
Users of pirated software become more tolerant to illegal and immoral activities.
They just unaware of that, but it steals something good inside the man.


I think this is only true if the users know that what they're doing is wrong.

Kevin Fulton wrote:
My own approach to pirated software was simple: if it proved useful and I could make money with it, I bought the program.


This might be the difference between home-user piracy and professional-user piracy. The professional user makes money with the software. The home user doesn't.

I would not be surprised if Microsoft Office is one of the most pirated pieces of software, and I would be equally unsurprised if it turned out that most of its pirate users are home users. What does Microsoft Word cost? The same as one month's mortgage payment. Compare that to often the home user uses Microsoft Word.

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
As an ex-software localiser and someone who frequently translates about software-based products and services, I would be shooting myself in the foot if I used pirated software.


No, you wouldn't. You'd only be shooting yourself in the foot if you admit to it.



[Edited at 2014-06-24 05:42 GMT]


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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Spain
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Unfair to fellow translators Jun 23, 2014

Giles Watson wrote:
If the customer requires me to deliver the translation in a specific format, it is up to me to find some way to comply or lose the job to a competitor who can deliver the product the customer actually needs.

Clearly if the customer requires a format you cannot really work with legally, you should not accept the job.

When someone uses pirated software to provide a service they really can't afford to provide, they are not only acting illegally, but they are also being plain unfair to other colleagues who have paid for the tool and contribute to its development.


 
Ali Bayraktar
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Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
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They know Jun 23, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:
I think this is only true if the users know that what they're doing is wrong.


Everyone knows that its wrong.
But the designated degree of wrongness is very low here (for them).
Its so low that they see it normal, legal and even moral.

The reason for the moral crash here is "seeking advantage".
The people, in order to take advantage from the situations, see the illegal and immoral thing as normal.

The same happens with drug sellers, swindlers, money launderers, etc.

I admit that the degree is different.

But the mechanism is the same: people convince themselves to do wrong things for taking advantages.

So I dont agree that they dont know.
They know everything very well. All of them.

Regards,

M. Ali


 
Michael Beijer
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Dutch to English
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‘I would rather tell seven lies than make one explanation.’ –Mark Twain Jun 23, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
Do you use pirated software?


One should never admit to using pirated software. It is unprofessional to admit to it. It is also unprofessional to use it, but the important point is not that you not should use it, but that you shouldn't openly admit to it and you certainly should not brag about it. Why? Because you never know when you might meet a client who doesn't think about it the way you do. And that could hurt your business and your online reputation.

(...)

You mention seven reasons on your blog about why software piracy is bad. None of those seven reasons do it for me, I'm afraid. I don't think software piracy is bad per se. I think that admitting to using pirated software is downright stupid, however.


You know who I would trust the least in a room full of people? The guy that tells me that what matters is not whether a person does something wrong, but whether he admits to having done it. I appreciate your ‘honesty’ though

Michael


 
Orrin Cummins
Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 23:02
Japanese to English
+ ...
Yes Jun 23, 2014

Giles Watson wrote:

Orrin Cummins wrote:

I understand the point you are trying to make, but this analogy breaks down when you consider that many agencies require that a translator uses Trados (or another "name-brand" CAT tool) in order to receive jobs. Eating at an expensive restaurant is not in any way required for anything, it's a luxury. You can get just as much nutrition eating at a soup kitchen for free.

If agencies merely required "any CAT tool," and not a specific one, the argument would be more valid. But this is not the reality of the situation in my experience.



I can see your point, Orrin, but it's not really fair.

If the customer requires me to deliver the translation in a specific format, it is up to me to find some way to comply or lose the job to a competitor who can deliver the product the customer actually needs.

Believe me, different CAT tools do not produce seamlessly compatible texts.


This is precisely what I meant by "the reality of the situation."

The reality is that in many cases you are forced to use the exact tool specified by the company, or else lose the job to someone that has it.

I'm not saying that this justifies piracy, just that this is the current state of things.

The restaurant analogy doesn't work for me because it equates eating (a basic function necessary to stay alive) with CAT tool use, which arguably isn't even a requirement to succeed as a translator at all, let alone keep on living.

To compare apples to apples we would need to compare CAT tools with the tools of other professions, as with farming as Dan mentions. Or how about the construction industry - you certainly aren't going to build a house without tools. Interestingly, in my time working in that industry I saw many tools stolen by workers in other companies. That would be akin to stealing someone's Trados license from them, making them unable to use the software anymore. Tool theft happens all of the time, though. This doesn't make it right, but we don't live in societies where all, or even most people live by a righteous code.


 
John Fossey
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Canada
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Not my fault Jun 24, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:

Keep a clear conscience.
- The most amazing thing about people doing stuff that they shouldn't is that they usually find a way to justify it to themselves.


A prison psychologist once did a survey to find out how many prisoners felt that they had been justly imprisoned.

The result was none. Everyone had a rationalization that justified themselves. Either their crime was justified or their conviction was unjustified. Society owed it to them. The government owed it to them. The victim owed it to them. The judge was biased. The prosecutors were corrupt. And on and on. Not one imprisoned criminal believed that what they had done was wrong and that they deserved their punishment. Such is the power of rationalization.


 
Samuel Murray
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English to Afrikaans
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@Michael Jun 24, 2014

Michael Beijer wrote:
[You say that] what matters is not whether a person does something wrong, but whether he admits to having done it.


Not quite what I said.

Remember, not everything that is legal is right, and not everything that is illegal is wrong. However, simply believing that something is not wrong will not protect you from the negative consequences of it being known that you are doing something illegal. So if you don't want to suffer the consequences (some people feel so strongly about it that they'd gladly suffer the consequences), then you have to be circumspect about it.



[Edited at 2014-06-24 05:39 GMT]


 
Samuel Murray
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@Ali Jun 24, 2014

Ali Bayraktar wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
I think this is only true if the users know that what they're doing is wrong.

Everyone knows that its wrong. But the designated degree of wrongness is very low here (for them).


I would have liked to believe that. However, people would only know that something is wrong if they have been told, and if everyone ever did it, and if their parents and/or peers never told them that it is wrong to do it, and if doing it is difficult to distinguish from similar activities, then it is not unlikely that some people may actually not know that it is wrong.

One problem is that there is practically no penalty for doing it. Unless you actually distribute pirated software (on a noticable scale), you're pretty much safe from harm. Software companies and anti-piracy groups rarely go after the little guys.

Another problem (alluded to before) is that it is often very difficult for non-savvy users to distinguish between legal software sharing and illegal software use (since many good tools are freeware these days).

And it is not always easy to decide what exactly software piracy is (or what "wrong" is):
- using a 30-day shareware for more than 30 days (your use of it is "illegal" but you're not using a "cracked version" of it)
- installing freeware that wasn't downloaded/obtained from an authorised source (and/or being the distributor of such software)
- using the "student" or "home" version for professional purposes (even if you're working from home)
- using software that isn't specifically freeware but which doesn't have any copy-protection (such as having to enter a license number)


 
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