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你认识那个“床铺”吗?
Thread poster: Meixia Jordan
ysun
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Definition of brazen Mar 3, 2017

看来,诗作者 Emma Lazarus 对于 “the brazen giant of Greek fame, with conquering limbs astride from land to land” 是有些反感的,不过我想,她还不至于用 shameless 来形容它。诗中的 brazen 也许是双关语,但要想把这双关语用中文恰当地表达出来,确实不易。

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/brazen
brazen

ADJECTIVE

1 
Bold and without shame.
 ‘he went about his illegal business with a brazen assurance’


‘a brazen hussy’


More example sentencesSynonyms
2
 archaic, literary Made of brass.
 ‘brazen fire irons’



More example sentencesSynonyms
2.1 Harsh in sound. ‘the music's brazen chords’



More example sentences

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brazen


 
Fargoer
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完全同意您的意见 Mar 4, 2017

ysun wrote:

看来,诗作者 Emma Lazarus 对于 “the brazen giant of Greek fame, with conquering limbs astride from land to land” 是有些反感的,不过我想,她还不至于用 shameless 来形容它。诗中的 brazen 也许是双关语,但要想把这双关语用中文恰当地表达出来,确实不易。


这里的 “brazen” 无疑是个双关语。仅就 " bold and without shame” 这方面的意思来看,与 “shameless” 也还是有区别的。" bold and without shame” 让我想起北方农村有句歇后语:“光着屁股攆狼——胆大不知羞”。这是对人的精神状态的一种描述。而“无耻”一词则含有强烈的道德谴责。用在这里过分了。


  


 
ysun
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自由女神将流芳万世 Mar 4, 2017

Fargoer wrote:

这里的 “brazen” 无疑是个双关语。仅就 " bold and without shame” 这方面的意思来看,与 “shameless” 也还是有区别的。" bold and without shame” 让我想起北方农村有句歇后语:“光着屁股攆狼——胆大不知羞”。这是对人的精神状态的一种描述。而“无耻”一词则含有强烈的道德谴责。用在这里过分了。

“光着屁股攆狼——胆大不知羞”,很风趣也很形象 。因 Colossus of Rhodes 早就被地震摧毁,后世的人只能凭想象来揣测他的形象。例如:

Rhodes0211.jpg

大概 Emma Lazarus 心目中的形象就是如此,所以她有些反感。

不知为何,我前几天贴出的那两个链接已经失灵。不过,我找到了另一人所汇集的自由女神像十四行诗译作,如下:

自由女神像的十四行诗译作集萃(征译版)
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4ef539fc0100oztc.html

自由女神像的十四行诗译作集萃(搜索版)
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4ef539fc0100owsm.html

不过,其中有些确实称不上是荟萃。例如,有人把 Colossus of Rhodes 译为“青铜时代大力神”。其实,Colossus of Rhodes 建于公元前282年,那时早已不再是青铜时代。大力神 Heracles 比 Colossus of Rhodes 约早 1000年。不了解历史背景,就很难深刻理解原作。Meixia 说得很对,“真正的译者就是一位文字大师”。


 
Fargoer
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Brazen - brass faced - 青铜厚皮 Mar 4, 2017

 
 
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
 


从词源上来看,brazen 这个词来源于“brass",本意是“以铜制成”。为什么会有不知羞耻的含义呢?大概是脸皮用铜制成就露不出羞耻的表情了(brass-faced)。这和中文的“脸皮太厚”异曲同工。

从历史上说,Colossus of Rhodes 是用大理石建造然后包裹青铜外皮,真格是“brass-faced”。

如果处理为“青铜厚皮巨像”或“厚皮青铜巨像”,能否多少把“bold and without shame"的意思表达出来?各位觉得如何?

不似那著名的希腊巨像,青铜厚皮铸就征服者的身躯,跨立两岸之地;

[修改时间: 2017-03-04 21:05 GMT]


 
ysun
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the brazen giant of Greek fame Mar 5, 2017

Fargoer wrote:

如果处理为“青铜厚皮巨像”或“厚皮青铜巨像”,能否多少把“bold and without shame"的意思表达出来?各位觉得如何?

不似那著名的希腊巨像,青铜厚皮铸就征服者的身躯,跨立两岸之地;

对我来说,这诗太难翻了。翻译三聚氰胺和 PM 2.5 之类的东西则要容易得多。 能否把 "the brazen giant of Greek fame" 译为“耀武扬威的希腊青铜巨神”? Emma Lazarus 是以 Colossus of Rhodes 为对比,凸显自由女神善良、博爱、温柔却又坚强的母亲形象。

[Edited at 2017-03-05 15:21 GMT]


 
Fargoer
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译者的无奈 Mar 8, 2017

ysun wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

如果处理为“青铜厚皮巨像”或“厚皮青铜巨像”,能否多少把“bold and without shame"的意思表达出来?各位觉得如何?

不似那著名的希腊巨像,青铜厚皮铸就征服者的身躯,跨立两岸之地;

对我来说,这诗太难翻了。翻译三聚氰胺和 PM 2.5 之类的东西则要容易得多。 能否把 "the brazen giant of Greek fame" 译为“耀武扬威的希腊青铜巨神”? Emma Lazarus 是以 Colossus of Rhodes 为对比,凸显自由女神善良、博爱、温柔却又坚强的母亲形象。

[Edited at 2017-03-05 15:21 GMT]


您这样处理也不错。比“无耻”、“叉腿”好太多了。双关语太难处理,只有在极罕见的例子中,才能碰到双关兼得的译文,多半是奇思加侥幸。 一般情况只能是把明面上的意思翻译出来,暗含的另一重涵义就丢失了。


 
ysun
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Ellis Island Mar 14, 2017

If you visit the Statue of Liberty, don’t miss Ellis Island to learn history. It is part of Statue of Liberty National Monument.
https://www.nps.gov/elis/learn/historyculture/index.htm

Island of Hope
From 1892 to 1924, Ellis Island was America's largest and most active immigration station, where over 12 million immigrants were processed. On average, the inspection process took approximately 3-7 hours. For the vast majority of immigrants, Ellis Island truly was an "Island of Hope" - the first stop on their way to new opportunities and experiences in America. For the rest, it became the "Island of Tears" - a place where families were separated and individuals were denied entry into the United States.

When you visit the Ellis Island, you will definitely find the senses of the New Colossus. Compared to those who are still living in misery yearning to breathe free, the immigrants who have entered the golden door are truly lucky!

[Edited at 2017-03-14 04:43 GMT]


 
ysun
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Translation of "wait and see" Jul 22, 2023

前面的讨论很有趣,参加讨论的这些老朋友也好久未见了,甚是想念!好几年过去了,“床铺”仍常出现在新闻头条!不过,我今天不准备讨论“床铺”,而是讨论前面曾讨论过的 idiom "wait and see"。之所以让我想起这场讨论,是因为我看到了下面这条新闻(含视频):

https://www.zaobao.com.sg/realtime/china/story20230720-1415657
克莱蒙斯跟着问,我们知道基辛格见了中国国防部长李尚福、也见了中共中央外事工作委员会办公室主任王毅,他有没有机会与秦刚见面?

对于这一问题,谢锋表情轻松地说:“我们就等着看(原话是 let’s wait and see)。”回答完毕,他哈哈大笑。

如前面所讨论,"wait and see"就是“拭目以待”,为什么偏要译成“我们就等着看”这种大白话呢?“我们就等着看”,可以理解为“我们就等着看好戏”或“我们就等着看笑话”,颇有幸灾乐祸的意味!“拭目以待”则是比较中性的,比喻殷切期盼或等待某事(可以是好事,也可以是坏事)的结局。当然,也许谢大使的本意就是“让我们等着瞧吧!” 从他的表情看来,他已经知道此事的结局,只不过是卖个关子而已。

Meixia Jordan wrote:

“拭目以待”一词含有期待某事发生的意味,在德文解释'die Entwicklung aufmerksam verfolgen'中,aufmerksam这一词也强调了关注/期盼的意味 。
而“We'll see”则往往没有那份期待,而是maybe, maybe not。
比如我问朋友是否有信心通过考试,他回答说 We'll see,那就表明他认为自己可能顺利考过,也可能考不过。
在孙先生提出的记者问川普是否可能与某人会面的例子中,川普回答的“We’ll see”不应该翻译成“拭目以待”,而是“也许吧”的意思,这是一个模棱两可的回答。


QHE
 
pkchan
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偷着樂 laughing up their sleeves Jul 22, 2023

111-1689648676171

是明爽,還是暗爽,肯定不是耿爽!

【外媒穷追秦刚下落 毛宁笑什么?】
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaU0K9F6oPM

秦刚在哪儿?中国驻美大使这样回答
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKoCtJHJQjQ


[Edited at 2023-07-22 19:15 GMT]


 
ysun
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幸灾乐祸(幸災樂禍) Jul 23, 2023

https://www.zdic.net/hans/幸灾乐祸

◎ 幸灾乐祸 xìngzāi-lèhuò

[schadenfreude; be glad when sb. is in difficulty; take pleasure in other's misfortune] 对别人遭遇的灾祸感到高兴
若居承平之世,睥睨宫闱,幸灾乐祸,首为逆乱。——北齐· 颜之推《颜氏家训》

Schadenfreude 是英语里一个外来词,源自德文。

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/zhs/词典/英语-汉语-简体/gloat
Gloat
verb
to feel or express great pleasure or satisfaction because of your own success or good luck, or someone else's failure or bad luck
(因自己的成功或好运而)沾沾自喜;(因别人的失败或坏运而)幸灾乐祸

She's continually gloating over/about her new job.
她一直在为获得了新工作而沾沾自喜。

I know I shouldn't gloat, but it really serves him right.
我知道自己不应该幸灾乐祸,可他真是活该。

His enemies were quick to gloat at his humiliation.
看到他受辱,他的对头们不失时机地表示幸灾乐祸。


 
pkchan
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是小燕還是鳳凰? Jul 23, 2023

P5222181

Hong Kong Free Press: Donald Trump confronts Chinese Phoenix TV reporter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoEkCshMcOY

麻生太郎回应凤凰卫视李淼 完整版 (2015.4.3 财务省记者会)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzolS4CRumI

獨家|駐美大使秦剛:中俄合作沒有禁區但有底線!俄烏衝突下中美關係對世界格局產生怎樣的影響?《風雲對話》20220324
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVCgpY9TLLQ


 
pkchan
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耐人尋味 Jul 25, 2023

1-P9203223

Feb - did not know about it 絕不知情

June - was kept in the dark 矇在鼓裡

洩露天機? 該當何罪。


 
ysun
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“凤凰一代名记” Jul 26, 2023

别猜了!所有答案都在这个视频里!一代名记傅晓田养成史。
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale25Td2-X8

傅晓田在剑桥大学丘吉尔学院晓田花园挂牌仪式上,为您讲述晓田花园背后�
... See more
别猜了!所有答案都在这个视频里!一代名记傅晓田养成史。
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale25Td2-X8

傅晓田在剑桥大学丘吉尔学院晓田花园挂牌仪式上,为您讲述晓田花园背后的故事
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7e-Vi17W10

我特别欣赏中国驻英国大使馆临时代办程雯女士在仪式上的讲话(约第8分钟起)。她的发言不但水平很高,而且英语纯正流畅。有网友评论说,临时代办的英语水平“秒杀”了在英国待了5年的凤凰“当家花旦”。

https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/傅晓田

不知各位如何评价这段推文所显示的英文水平?



[Edited at 2023-07-27 02:51 GMT]
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ysun
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谁笑到最后,谁笑得最好 Jul 27, 2023

She who laughs last, laughs longest/best.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/he-who-laughs-last-laughs-longest-best

【超清完整版】20160422 锵锵三人行 傅晓田:凤姐在中国被嘲笑是自己作
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csMxqbawVqw

傅晓田这话里的"作"是什么意思?应如何译成英文?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_zuo_no_die
"Zuo" (作) is a Shanghainese word meaning to "act silly or daring (for attention)".

确实,上海人常会这样说, “伊迭个宁(她这个人)作是作得来要死!”

这一期“锵锵三人行”视频中还提到了《美国之音》对“凤姐”罗玉凤的专访以及《环球时报》“炮轰凤姐”。作为参考,我在此列出以下报道,但我不加评论。我只想说一句,那些嘲笑凤姐、林徽因以及法国第一夫人的人,其实并无资格嘲笑她们!最后谁笑谁还很难说。据传,凤姐评论傅晓田:“我原谅她嘲笑我,因为认知决定了傅晓田走的是一条不归路!”听到这话,我不禁对罗玉凤肃然起敬!

美国之音人物专访:“凤姐”罗玉凤
https://www.voachinese.com/a/luo-yufeng-voa-interview-20160324/3253787.html

《环球时报》:我们就认真一回:“凤姐”这个励志榜样到底是个什么鬼
https://china.huanqiu.com/article/9CaKrnJUUmm

《美国之音》:环球时报炮轰“凤姐” 中国网民纷纷反击
https://www.voachinese.com/a/voa-interviewee-20160406/3271516.html

耿直哥请闭嘴,你在侮辱我们的智商!
https://weibo.com/p/23041815295908c0102w6j9?pids=Pl_Official_CardMixFeedv6__4&feed_filter=2


 
pkchan
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烏鴉豈能變鳳凰 Jul 27, 2023

20220910_201000

你能弄點月餅嗎?

會不會晚了一點!

eb66e3e2e1ac95d1bb3eb0142bdcab01

[明星三人行]1999彭丽媛、窦文涛、梁文道
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1_sf03ID4w

[Edited at 2023-07-27 02:46 GMT]


 
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